Should they never get married?

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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southernbubby

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:36 am

I know that the sounds of sirens is anecdotal at best but the same frequent ambulance sirens that sounded a week after Purim sounded off again a week after Pesach (and Easter).
I don't know why it matters what anyone else thinks. We have doctors that we can ask as well as rabbonim. Hopefully in the near future, testing will be cheap enough, reliable enough, and available enough to allow people to test or be tested before getting together.
It wasn't illegal to allow one or two people into people's homes; it was simply not recommended.
In Israel, the couple would have had to stay with you for 2 days before and after.

amother

Denim

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:39 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

It's very nice that you dont feel like a murderer but guess what ?? You are one . Glad you enjoyed your yuntif while people died alone without family members by their side, had levayas alone , sat Shiva alone too!! But noo you couldn't listen . You had to be selfish and do what was good for you and not what was good for the klal. Ever think that maybe the people that died while they quarantined died because your child was at the store food shopping while they were food shopping?? Or while the person shopping for them bumped into you or your child ?? No we dont care about others . All that matters is that I had my kids for yuntif and I had a nice yuntif . No one else matters in this world . I gotta live my life!!! And if hashem decided that my germs will kill someone so be it !!

This is so over the top, like boogey-man level. You're not doing yourself or anyone else any good with this level of panic.

Hillery

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:43 am

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

Nobody came into your house to comment on your actions. You chose to discuss it here. If you chose to post partial information and ask for opinions based on that, how are you surprised if you are receiving what you consider to be inaccurate assessments of your actions?

I didn't. Why would I ever ask anonymous people for opinions on what I do?

What happened was we were discussing minyanim, and I mentioned the irony of what a guest had told me about police coming in vans of 8, with no SD, to break up an outdoor spread out minyen.

Some posters picked up on the word guest and took me up on that. I explained that these were people who literally wouldn't have where to eat if they couldn't be guests, but imamother was having none of it.

I was flamed and ridiculed, and some posters even stalked me across other unrelated posts, "Your opinion doesn't count because you had guests."

Now I wasn't about to disclose the circumstances of my guests and am still not about to do so. But the fact that nobody would even dream of taking my word that these guests really needed the invitations, shows you the mentality of the herd. At least at the time.

amother

Denim

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:44 am

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

leaving the corona issue aside, OP, I want to say something about your question in the title of this thread.

I think the real question is not, should they never get married, but - should they have children.

I'm saying this as the spouse of a sister who sounds, in many ways, similar to the way you describe your DD, but in some ways different. It's hard to know from a short online description. A person is way more complex.

My sister got married about 20 years ago, to a person who sounds totally unlike your SIL. He's more of a quiet, inactive, learning-disabled, also somewhat socially-off type. Like your couple, they definitely have a strong connection. I think it's kind of sweet.

But the kids, that's where it's a disaster. I can't begin to describe their suffering, and the emotional issues they have now (and the cost). They have a daughter who is intellectually normal, a top student, but socially withdrawn, mostly due to the family situation....a son with huge mental health issues...and another child who is being totally neglected in many areas (even though they love him to pieces.)

I should say that neither of them knows how to parent, even though they love their kids.

(Binah magazine had a story in the Pesach issue about an adult who is the child of special-needs parents, entitled Love Is Enough. I wanted to scream NO IT'S NOT.)

Our parents, who tried to help in the beginning, became elderly and then passed on. At this point, some siblings try to help (financially and otherwise) and some totally ignore, because they have enough on their plates from their own families. (the ones that help have plenty on their plates too...they just do their best anyway.)

Even those who help cannot do much - it's not like this couple listens to anyone or lets them. They don't want interference even while they do crazy things that harm their kids. We can make sure the kids have decent clothes, but we can't help with the home they live in....and it's a tremendous financial pressure too, none of us are financially comfortable, and yet we do what we can (and can't) all the time.

Just some things to consider. Every situation is different.

Much Nachas from your couple.

I'm not OP, but I found this comment to be inappropriate and out of place. Op didn't ask your thoughts on whether her kids should procreate or not. The question in the title was quite clearly rhetorical/hyperbolic. I have a child with a minor physical disability, and though she's very young once of my biggest anxieties is about whether she'll be able to have kids. A comment like yours, coming out of left field and being totally unexpected, might cause the OP tremendous pain. (And I doubt an anonymous woman on the web is going to tell her something she, and her husband and mechutanim, haven't already agonized over.)

Hillery

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:46 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Yes you were very clear and you were still 100 percent wrong for having guests . Again, you could have sent them food . You were wrong .

Seeing as I know the circumstances and you don't, I don't think your opinion carries much weight in the matter. But feel free to have one.

Chayalle

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:47 am

Actually, some special-needs people are among the most vulnerable of the population, as many have health issues. They may be far better off being quarantined, with food sent over.

My BIL sat shiva for his special-needs brother the week after Pesach. Some well-meaning people spread the virus to his residence....I'm sure some posters would say that of course, Hashem spread the germ, and those people did a big Chesed visiting him......

lamplighter

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:49 am

I know of of a few people who had/were guests. They had directives (including quarintine etc.) from doctors but it was not public knowledge. They stayed indoors and definitely did not announce it on the web.
OP there was no reason for you to announce your exception especially leaving out the most important details.
Similar to receiving a heter from a Rav for a personal circumstance.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 10:57 am

If a couple cannot figure out how to clean their home, or how to cook basic meals, they should probably be living in an assisted facility.

I certainly hope she is on birth control. If you can't roast a chicken or sweep the floor, you have no business raising a baby.

I've seen the devastation that ASD parents can to to their NT children.

amother

Silver

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:00 am

Hillery wrote:

Seeing as I know the circumstances and you don't, I don't think your opinion carries much weight in the matter. But feel free to have one.

You said you needed to have company because the guests had no food to eat . Based on your explanation that is not a valid excuse to do what you want . I'm guessing now since you actually heard of a valid reason to have guests like the op you think you can make believe you have a valid reason which you dont. Do wtvr you need to do to sleep at night but what you did was wrong and you endangered society .

Fabulous

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I would like to understand why people, not just this OP, feel the need to publicize what they are doing, or not doing, or doing illegally or whatever it is.
Everyone does what they do, right imor wrong. Thats their own issue. But why the need to put it out on the web?
Once something is out there, its really nobody's fault for giving their opinions on any post. Thats what this website is all about.

This. You were likely right to have them. Although, again unless it caused significant hardship for the young couple emotionally to only be at one family, I would have just sucked it up and one family hosted. If you know you did the right thing, either don’t get validation or get validation from people you know irl. Anon message boards are not the place for it

amother

Silver

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:02 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

This is so over the top, like boogey-man level. You're not doing yourself or anyone else any good with this level of panic.

There is nothing over the top with my post . Clearly you havent been affected by this virus . Nothing I posted was made up at all . People are in the icu alone , people are dying alone and sitting Shiva alone . This isnt made up . These are the facts . Go ahead and dig your head in the sand .

amother

Denim

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:03 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

What a hurtful, ignorant, and obnoxiously worded statement. Out of place, too.

amother

Silver

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:04 am

Hillery wrote:

Again you are posting that if you wouldnt have invited them they wouldnt have what to eat and again we are telling you that you could have sent them food without having to invite them over . That isnt a valid excuse. Everyone somehow thinks they're an exception to the rule and that their circumstances are different than everyone else . Guess what ? Most people are not the exception . OP in this situation is . Everyone thinks their life is the hardest and they dont have to listen to the rules but that's not how it works . OP had a valid reason to have her kids over .

amother

Lavender

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:08 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

I'm wondering if you were the poster from England that insisted that without her hosting the guests wouldn't have eaten on Pesach. If so, then you should not have misled posters by leaving out these crucial details. You can't expect people to respond the way you want them to when you leave out half the story and being defiant just backs you into a corner and makes you look foolish.

I think in this case it’s sad that some people have become so concerned with what others think and are so hooked on social media that they feel a need to get validation for their decisions from anonymous people they never met! Why does OP need to justify herself at all? And why on social media? If you know you did the right thing then that’s great and just be quiet about it. You don’t need anyone’s approval or opinion. Finished.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:10 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That wasn't me and I did try to explain on other threads but was knocked down before I could get a word in.

Did u ever ask yourself why u feel the need to even tell a bunch of anonymous women what’s going on with your kids?

Hillery

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:12 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

That's not what I said. Please go back and read my posts. Or not. Either way they're on the record.

Hillery

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:13 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

And again I'm telling that wouldn't have worked.

amother

Babypink

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:14 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Then she should have titled her thread more appropriately, if this is not what she meant. I didn't read it the way you did. She went from one thought to another, and others picked up on the corona part. I went back to her original question.

A minor physical disability does not compare the the discussion here at all. And trust me, whatever pain she may feel is minute compared to the pain of what happens if this is not addressed. Unfortunately, I see enough families where it is not, and the results are really crazy. Hence my post, and we can disagree about whether it was appropriate to post. Perhaps it would make some people think about what the kids may suffer, and what considerations and planning might be put in place to prevent that.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Because when posters were literally "shrieking on to of their longs" STAY HOME!, I felt very judged. Our couple isn't SN, they are a regular couple with a "touch" that BH operate well in society, hold down productive jobs and have lots of friends. Their weaknesses isn't even noticeable to the commoner! That's why BH, we were able to do a great shidduch with great mechtanim, considering the circumstances. We just knew their married life will be a little awkward and harder to adjust in the beginning, and bezh with proper support and guidance, they will stand on firm ground.

Now please be honest, had you seen our newlywed couple, coming and going on Pesach, what would be going through your head? I had to defend that! I felt judged, I'm human and also under the viirus quarantine stress.

If you feel judged, then either you did something wrong, or you are a sucker for public opinion.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Apr 30 2020, 11:23 am

This is the thing, in this type of community: everyone HAS to get married. Young. If a couple is special needs, or socially awkward, or whatever, parents ll have to help. A lot. But you know what, even some couples that are not special needs, they are all over their parents, specially as a newly married couple. It’s a cultural thing. If you are not part of this type of community, you simply don’t understand it.
Op, I think you are better off going to the private group of the type of community you belong to. And discussing it over there. There are people from many communities on imamother. The same way you don’t know how their community works, they don’t know how yours work.

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