Mandatory Covid Vaccine

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Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

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#BestBubby

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:30 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

You don't need to vaccinate, but why do you have the right to spread it to others? Not everyone develops immunity from a vaccine, as a certain percentage of the population does not develop proper antibodies. Why should you have the right to infect coworker's &customers or travel somewhere and bring them disease. It sounds incredibly selfish to me. Do what you want but keep it to yourself. You have no right to share and infect others, which is what you are demanding the right to do.
Others have the right to safety you have no right to risk their lives and infringe on their safety.

This argument only applies to those who ARE infected. To say that a person without any symptoms is not allowed in society is tyranny. Quarantines are for those who are SICK, not
for those who refuse vaccination.

Vaccinations carry RISK of injury and death - read the vaccine inserts.

Why should you have the right to inflict injury or death on others? That is what you are demanding the right to do. It sounds incredibly selfish to me. People who refuse vaccines have
the right to protect themselves from vaccine injury and death and you have no right to risk their lives and infringe on their safety.

ALL LIVES MATTER.

#BestBubby

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:37 pm

amother [Teal] wrote:

Okay, I will explain the real need for the exsistence of the RE as relates to Judaism. A clear example.

Little 4 year old child has anaphalactic reaction from vaccine. Dr delays next booster. Time to enroll in school. A year and a half has passed. They carefully try the next booster in the office with all precautions. Child has another ana reaction. B"h survives it. Now child is due for next booster in grade 6. Dr reccomends they carefully try it again. Many years have passed. Parents very worried. Consult Rabbi, rabbi is easy going about things and feels vaccines are accepted medical of time and actually agrees its okay to try (now would he really according to halacha? Idk) Rabbi says if your Dr feels it is okay. So they try it. Another ana reaction. Guess what in the State of California this kid still cannot qualify for a medical exemption. No Rabbi under the sun after 3 ana's will permit a vaccine again. So this kid cannot go to HS. Has to homeschool. Cant have a regular rebbe, a chavrusa. A social life. Why??? Because Religious exemption was taken away. And to qualify for a medical exemption without basically being in middle of chemo is very rare. They penalize Dr s for giving them. They even put a govt agent above the Drs to check they dont give them too much. Including for really bad cases like the fake one I used.

It is a tragedy for real for some people that it was removed. There is true unexaggerated need for it, legit. Now the whole 1000% against or pro crowds dont like to hear reality is in the middle of all the extremism. But it is.

Gd forbid but how many anaphalatic incidences would it take for you to say no more? For most people it is less than governmental requirements.

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

IMO - This speaks to the problem with the ME.

The RE wasn't intended to be a safety value for the ME.

No. The problem is Tyranny. That is why MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS were taken away with very rare exceptions. And that is why RELIGIOUS Exemptions were taken away.

The government gets away with Tyranny because not enough people are protesting.
When there are sufficient numbers of voters protesting, then government backs down.

amother

Indigo

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:56 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

AFIK your actual position on this the EXEMPTION system is WRONG. People should have CHOICE to vaccinate or not. Correct?

#BestBubby

Mon, May 25 2020, 7:01 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

AFIK your actual position on this the EXEMPTION system is WRONG. People should have CHOICE to vaccinate or not. Correct?

Correct. There should be no vaccine mandates to attend school or work.

Until a few years ago (2015) ANYBODY could have opted out of vaccines and attend school.

Were we dying enmasse from measles? Even in the last measles outbreak, no American died.
But about 400 deaths per year reported following vaccination.

There should not be any vaccine mandates at all. It should be a CHOICE.
My Body, My Choice.

amother

Indigo

Mon, May 25 2020, 7:19 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

That's what I thought. (odd choice of slogan).

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:24 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

That's what I thought. (odd choice of slogan).

It's actually a very appropriate slogan but of course if you're a Dem it only applies to reproductive rights.

amother

Indigo

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:35 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

It's actually a very appropriate slogan but of course if you're a Dem it only applies to reproductive rights.

I'm not a Dem. The slogan is much associated with women and reproductive rights. Just is.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:41 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

I'm not a Dem. The slogan is much associated with women and reproductive rights. Just is.

Yay. It's also a (very apt) slogan used by antivaxxers, and it highlights the hypocrisy of liberals who chant "my body my choice" yet don't afford that same choice to others.

amother

Indigo

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:45 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

Yay. It's also a slogan used by antivaxxers.

Yay. "when there is risk, there must be choice" got stale?

amother

Indigo

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:48 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

Yay. It's also a (very apt) slogan used by antivaxxers, and it highlights the hypocrisy of liberals who chant "my body my choice" yet don't afford that same choice to others.

the women protesting for abortion centers aren't the ones making vaccination laws. what hyprocrisy?

gold21

Mon, May 25 2020, 10:52 pm

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

Yay. It's also a (very apt) slogan used by antivaxxers, and it highlights the hypocrisy of liberals who chant "my body my choice" yet don't afford that same choice to others.

There's hypocrisy on both sides.

Those who chant "my body, my choice" with regards to vaccines while being adamantly against abortion; and vice versa, those who use this slogan to advocate for abortion rights but are against vaccine rights.

In both cases, a person is placing their own life above the (potential) the risk to another (potential) life.

(I myself have only used this slogan to petition for the rights of patients to access medical care as they see fit (such as in the hydroxychloroquine saga). There is no risk to the life of another in these cases, therefore it is truly a case of "my body, my choice".)

soap suds

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:00 am

Totally off topic, but I never really got the "my body, my choice" slogan. How is that ever an answer when there's someone else being effected by your choice? Can I punch you in the face, because "Hey, it's my fist. I can do whatever I want with it"?

#BestBubby

Tue, May 26 2020, 2:09 am

soap suds wrote:

Well, since we all MIGHT be carrying a cold virus or flu virus or some other germ, should we
all be locked up in quarantine???

Quarantines are for people who KNOW they are contagious - not for people who MIGHT be
contagious - which is EVERYBODY.

When you mandate vaccines on EVERYBODY, you are DEFINITELY injuring and killing
a certain percentage.

Per Nuremberg Laws it is immoral to do medical procedure / medicate someone against
their will.

amother

Teal

Tue, May 26 2020, 6:07 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I vaccinate and still agree with this purely from a moral, ethics, politics type of thing.

By the same token, pet peeve of mine,

you need to go to work so you give child who is already sick tylenol and send them to playgroup or school. You know a bunch of people are very guilty of this. But somehow everyone rationalizes it is okay. How many times has your entire kids class come down sick because one selfish mother? They are running a small fever, already cranky with mild but multiple symptoms. You dont know if it is viral, or bacterial, you dont care if the teacher or 10 other kids will catch it and maybe pass it to an immunocompromised person. Reliably happens every single year. But you cant be missing work. Doesn't matter if they vomited that morning, let us assume it was probably nothing and share with everyone. Common decency of yesterday was if you are sick you stay home. Not anymore. Now, if you are sick, rely that everyone had shots and it doesnt matter if you get the 96 yo man at shul back in the hospital because you spent 3 hours sneezing & coughing on everyone at shul and left your used tissues on the table. Because after all it was so and so's simcha, you had to be there.

Holding schooling hostage does not get people who do not vaccinate to change their minds. I think honesty and education would except for those who need the exceptions and cant get them because they made it too hard. The requirements are ridiculous. It also does not incentivise the drug companies to keep working on safer vaccines or quality controls of vaccine batches. It also does not stop sick people from being selfish and sending sick ones out to infect others. I mean people have died of regular everday things like strep and ear infections from the complications.

I think education is part of the answer. Transparency is too. And so is moral decency. The government has made it too hard for damaged vaccine people to be exempted (medically). And too hard for Drs to do a proper job and adjust the vaccine *suggested* schedule to the medical needs of patients. I think this is mostly why there are anti-vaxxers. And I think the lobby in DC is responsible. It is back to politics as usual.

---Just like there are more food allergies than there used to be, more chronically sick children than there used to be , there are more kids today who suffer ill effects from vaccines than there used to be ----, you dont go penalizing them. You dont brush the problem under the rug. You need to address their medical needs by finding solutions that work and are ethical and stop fooling around in Washington. Holding school as a hook does not accomplish any positive changes for society as a whole. Especially since most people are happy to vaccinate. Except for (mostly) the ones who had bad effects and honestly should probably not be on a regular vaccine schedule but a special one for affected children. Parents and Drs should not have to fight for that. Like someone said, these guidelines should be ---reasonable. Without damaged kids not getting reasonable medical care, parents being activists for their basic care, there wouldn't be an anti vax movement.

fleetwood

Tue, May 26 2020, 7:46 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

Yay. It's also a (very apt) slogan used by antivaxxers, and it highlights the hypocrisy of liberals who chant "my body my choice" yet don't afford that same choice to others.

I actually was thinking the opposite. The o.p.says my body my rights for vaccines but not for abortion.

Ema of 5

Tue, May 26 2020, 7:48 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I think that’s going to change after this. At least I hope it will. I think people will think twice about sending a sick kid to school. And schools will be more strict about allowing sick kids (and teachers and other staff members) in.

#BestBubby

Tue, May 26 2020, 10:20 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Especially since most people are happy to vaccinate. Except for (mostly) the ones who had bad effects and honestly should probably not be on a regular vaccine schedule but a special one for affected children. Parents and Drs should not have to fight for that. Like someone said, these guidelines should be ---reasonable. Without damaged kids not getting reasonable medical care, parents being activists for their basic care, there wouldn't be an anti vax movement.

You are correct that most people are happy to vaccinate. Only about 2% were opting out.
So why did pharmaceutical industry bribe government to take away medical, religious and philosophical exemptions?

1. The number of people not vaxxing or spacing out vaccines were growing.

2. The number of children with autism and other chronic illnesses were growing.

3. More parents were getting nervous about vaccines. It was reported in newspapers that autism is virtually non-existent among those who don't vax. There was an outcry for a
VAX VS UNVAX STUDY which would EXPOSE that vaccines cause much more harm than people realize. The CDC refused to do a Vax vs UnVax Study with no explanation.

In order to stop a Vax vs UnVax Study from ever happening, pharmaceutical industry started getting states to eliminate virtually all exemptions. If there are NO UNVAXXED Children, then there can never be a Vax vs UnVax Study - they have destroyed the
evidence, the Control Group.

amother

Silver

Tue, May 26 2020, 10:42 am

Ema of 4 wrote:

I doubt it. Maybe for school where children are old enough to stay at home.
Daycare? Kindergarten?

The workers are pushed to come in when they are sick too, because of all the moms who need to work.

LovesHashem

Tue, May 26 2020, 10:59 am

If you kid has bad reactions to vaccines, you need a medical exemption, NOT a religious one.

banana123

Tue, May 26 2020, 11:02 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Whatever the report said, that statement is simply not true. Autism rates are similar in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

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