PSA vegan is still treif

Hillery

Mon, May 25 2020, 5:43 pm

I didn't want to derail a different thread where this was mentioned, so I'm opening a new one. Food that was cooked by a [gentile] is treif.

There are some exceptions to that halacha, notably food that isn't 'proper' enough for formal dinners. Which is why some kashrus organisations don't mind that the potato chips (crisps) are fried/kettle-cooked by non jews. But all other foods have to be cooked by Yidden.

Bishul akum renders food treif even if all the ingredients are 100% kosher. Even if the [gentile] would cook your food in your kitchen, using your pots, it would still be treif. And you would need to kasher the pots. (In fact even leaving a [cleaner] on her own in your house can be a serious problem with the pots, but that is a separate issue.)

Sometimes people think that if it's vegetarian, and especially if it's vegan, there is no kashrus issue. At least not in extenuating circumstances. But in truth cooked food which wasn't cooked by a Yid is completely and utterly treif.

amother

Red

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:03 pm

PSA. There are people who thrive on conflict. They will say things to provoke argument simply for the sake of meeting this emotional need. The best response is to say "how interesting" and to move on.

Cheshire cat

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:08 pm

Red, if I understand your implication correctly, you are being unfair.

Hillery raised a valid, and important, point. She did so matter of factly, and politely.

The contentious post here is yours, not hers.

paintbrush

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:16 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Isnt there a concept of less treif? For example you can order pork or order vegan, shouldn't you order vegan?

Yes because pork would violate two halachos, eating treif meat, and Eating food cooked by a gentile. Eating vegan food would only violate the second Halacha. So yeah it is better, but that doesn’t make it okay.

singleagain

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:18 pm

But if a Jew turns on the fire or is some other way involved in the cooking. It's fine. That's how restaurants work.

In fact, I've cooked the rice for the sushi guys in my supermarket. Like, I'm srsly just walking by and they say "can you cook the rice" and I push the button on the rice cooker and boom. Kosher rice. Even though the chef put it in the cooker and will take it out and roll it around the seaweed with the fish/vegtables.

behappy2

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:19 pm

paintbrush wrote:

Ok. But not all aveiros are created equal. There is kareis, Dioraysa , Dirabonon etc...So I don't remember exactly but always understood that this is better

paintbrush

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:22 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Ok. But not all aveiros are created equal. There is kareis, Dioraysa , Dirabonon etc...So I don't remember exactly but always understood that this is better

Yes I think you are right

amother

Wheat

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:25 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Ok. But not all aveiros are created equal. There is kareis, Dioraysa , Dirabonon etc...So I don't remember exactly but always understood that this is better

If there's a case of extenuating circumstances, a rav should be consulted to pasken. Other than that, people should not be making determinations for themselves outside of true emergencies.

Hillery

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:28 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Ok. But not all aveiros are created equal. There is kareis, Dioraysa , Dirabonon etc...So I don't remember exactly but always understood that this is better

Better is the wrong word, more appropriate would be less bad. But as I wrote, bishul akum isn't some chumra or lekatchila, it's 100% treif and ossur.

According to Ashkenazim it's enough for a Yid to light the flame, even if a [gentile] actually put on the pot. But according to Sefardim a Yid actually has to do the cooking, ie put the pot on the flame.

Baking is indeed different, and there it's only ossur if a private [gentile] bakes. But bread from a bakery, as long as it's kosher, is permitted (though not ideal).

giselle

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:29 pm

Hillery wrote:

Actually the reason that eating potato chips are ok is not because of that. There are different Halachos for commercial products vs a restaurant that serves you directly.

keym

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:34 pm

There's also a concept of Oleh Al Shulchan Melochim. In plain words Bishul Yisroel/Bishul Akum is only a problem if the food is Chashuv enough to serve on a king's table/state banquet.
My posek holds that's the reason I can eat non Bishul Yisroel potato chips and popcorn. Because it's not Chashuv enough.
And there are many foods that poskim debate if it's Chashuv enough.

amother

Brown

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:38 pm

I was also told it’s okay if food is normally eaten raw. So a non jew cooking tomatoes or another food commonly eaten raw is okay.
(We are makpid on Bishul yosroel for canned food - which is a Chumrah - and that is how I choose what to buy).

amother

Apricot

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:39 pm

Hillery wrote:

But like others have said there are different levels of observance. A MO might consider themselves frum but not accept that keilim have to be toiveled prior to usage. Or that if food that is otherwise kosher is cooked by a gentile, it is deemed treif.

keym

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:41 pm

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

I was told that also.
No matter how many ingredients that could technically be eaten raw are mixed together.
So some soups and vegetarian dishes, dips, etc are 100% ok.

amother

Bisque

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:50 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

Can you edit your post and remove the word MO and replace with the word ”someone”?
I am MO and I don’t believe any of those things are the case for anyone I know.

Hillery

Mon, May 25 2020, 6:51 pm

keym wrote:

That's what I meant when I mentioned potato chips. And Brown is right that foods which are commonly eaten raw, also are permitted.