Do you consider yourself a Zionist?

behappy2

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:12 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Im sorry but I have to ask, which zionists think that the israeli army is god or that the land of Israel is a religion? If you are talking about the chalutzim, the pioneers that started the country, I dont think those things were god and their religion, but rather a very deep felt cause that they lived for.

Here is the definition of what a zionist is today:
A person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

And according to that definition, I am a proud zionist.

Yes, the idea was you don't need to be religious if you live in the land of Israel.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:13 pm

behappy2 wrote:

Yes, the idea was you don't need to be religious if you live in the land of Israel.

Correct, you dont have to be religious. I dont understand how this answers my question.

Rappel

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:16 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Could Israel survive without a military?

הנה לא ינום ולא ישן שומר ישראל.

A bunch of gun-toting 18 year-olds aren't keeping Israel going. Smile

That comes from a higher power.

behappy2

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:19 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Correct, you dont have to be religious. I dont understand how this answers my question.

They equated it with religion. God had abandoned them but now they had an army to defend themselves.

I understand that there were many groups, mostly not frum, some frum. A lot of Israeli teenagers went off the derech to join these not frum groups.

SixOfWands

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:23 pm

Rappel wrote:

הנה לא ינום ולא ישן שומר ישראל.

A bunch of gun-toting 18 year-olds aren't keeping Israel going. Smile

That comes from a higher power.

That doesn't answer the question.

Do you think Israel could survive if the IDF didn't exist?

FmrNewEnglander

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:24 pm

"A bunch of gun-toting 18 year-olds aren't keeping Israel going. Smile That comes from a higher power."

I am not sure I understand this comment...says parent of two (formerly) 18 year old gun toting IDF soldiers.

#Happymom

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:26 pm

I was taught that altho we dont not believe that it is the army that protects our land, since they are doing their hishtadlus to protect us, we must appreciate them. We do not need to believe that they are right, but we should be thanking them. Heard from a respected Rav.

amother

Bisque

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:28 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Me too

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:33 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

That doesn't answer the question.

Do you think Israel could survive if the IDF didn't exist?

I dont think so. And not all soldiers are 18 year old pishers.
And of course HaShem has a very big hand in that army. Its seen all of the time.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:34 pm

Not Zionist in the current sense does NOT equal anti-Zionist.
I'm a Zionist in the Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi sense. I love the land, its people, and the Torah.

#Happymom

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:35 pm

We need to show hakaras hatov to the soldiers, all though we believe that it is only in the Hand on Hashem

amother

Blush

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:35 pm

Just the other day I came across this
[Link removed to avoid additional conflict, only Hashem can spread the truth]
proud to be anti-zionist

amother

Black

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:37 pm

No but I am super pro Israel. I just don't stand for the actual zionistic movement.

amother

Bisque

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:39 pm

FmrNewEnglander wrote:

I am not sure I understand this comment...says parent of two (formerly) 18 year old gun toting IDF soldiers.

Kol hakavod.
Thank you for all their hard work, challenges they faced and all the risks they took, putting their lives on hold to protect our people and our land.
You must be very proud!

#Happymom

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:40 pm

There is no zionistic momevent anymore!
Do you remember recently when we were all asked to vote for the zionist comitee (or something?☺) and all the rabbonim came out to say that we should vote, bec, us, frum jews are the only zionists left!!

sequoia

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:42 pm

I am very Zionist — it is an inherent part of my identity and my soul, as much as being a woman, a Jew, a feminist.

Just now someone on FB told me Israel is an apartheid state and “free palestine” — I am debating whether to block them or not.

If I lived in Israel, I would definitely be part of a dati leumi community. I support the IDF, for which I was mocked in my very liberal private school.

This question is *basically* “are you chareidi?” — chareidim are non- or anti-Zionist. For me, it doesn’t matter if it’s coming from left-wing antisemitism or chareidi ideology — it’s all the same.

PeanutMama

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:42 pm

I am not sure.
My husband and I love eretz haKODESH and it’s jewish people.
But we’re totally against the secular state and secular government
I’ll elaborate more later

Last edited by PeanutMama on Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

sequoia

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:44 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

No but I am super pro Israel. I just don't stand for the actual zionistic movement.

Um, you seem to misunderstand the terms. If you’re pro-Israel, you’re Zionist by definition.

Zionist = anyone who doesn’t think the State of Israel should be destroyed.

Rappel

Wed, Jul 01 2020, 4:49 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

That doesn't answer the question.

Do you think Israel could survive if the IDF didn't exist?

Yes, of course.

And before you all jump on me: That doesn't change the fact that we work hard each day. DH served, and I did sheirut leumi. Our children will probably serve.

But do I think the army is necessary to keep the Jewish people in the land, or the state in existence, so long as G-d wills it? No way. It's just the tool He's currently using as a medium for His acts. It's as replaceable as any mashal, as is the state.