How could hydrooxchloroquine be harmful?

#BestBubby

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:38 pm

Amarante wrote:

Do you realize how crazy your theory is?

No one in the world is using this treatment. It has been universally discredited by several scientific studies.

So you think all of the world’s scientists and doctors are conspiring with Democrats in the USA to prevent Trump’s election.

How can anyone leave their logic so behind and come up with conspiracies that defy all rational thinking.

Wrong again, Amarante! Plenty of countries are using HCQ very successfully!

The above chart shows that countries that permitted and encouraged hydroxy have a MUCH LOWER death rate than countries that discourage and prohibit hydroxy!

Also, the two studies showing HCQ was not effective were fraudulent and were WITHDRAWN by the Medical Journal.

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:44 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Dr. Birx: Randomized trials show benefit for remdesivir, but not hydroxychloroquine

https://www.foxnews.com/media/.....covid

In addition, note that Israel too is using remdesivir and not hydroxychloroquine.

Resdemsvir definitely appears to be the best option for hospitalized covid patients. Hydroxycholoroquine only offers significant benefit when it is administered early, at symptom onset. And yes, at symptom onset, in an outpatient framework, its a decent option. As for the fact that the American media slams hydroxychloroquine as a dangerous drug, ill post an article below, out of Israel, discussing the benefits of this very medication, in 2014, before this became such a hot button issue.

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:47 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that chart is wrong since it isn't being used in Israel. I imagine some of the other countries are incorrect as well. I know Russia and Turkey are using it though most other countries are doing trials first rather than using it widely.

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:47 pm

The Association Between Hydroxychloroquine Treatment and Cardiovascular Morbidity Among Rheumatoid Arthritis Patients

Michael Shapiro1 and Yair Levy2, 1Haim Lebanon 55, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv, Israel, 2Internal Medicine E, Meir Medical Center, Kfar Saba, Israel

Meeting: 2014 ACR/ARHP Annual Meeting

Background/Purpose: Accelerated atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease are the main causes of mortality in Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA). The anti-malarial drug Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has long been used in the treatment of RA due to its anti-inflammatory properties. Recent studies have demonstrated that HCQ has additional beneficial effects on cardiovascular risk factors by lowering LDL levels, reducing the risk for diabetes and improving elasticity of atherosclerotic arteries. Our aim was to examine the independent effect of HCQ treatment on cardiovascular morbidity among RA patients.

Methods: We conducted a retrospective cohort study in the Meir Medical Center. Participants were diagnosed with RA, were 18 or older at the time of diagnosis and had been treated in the medical center between 2003 and 2013. Patients were divided into two groups, those who had been treated with HCQ during the course of their disease and those who had never received the drug. The two groups were compared in regard to possible confounding factors, including parameters of disease severity, common cardiovascular risk factors and additional medications. The endpoints of our study were arterial and venous events, including: Myocardial Infarction (MI), stroke, Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA), mesenteric event, Pulmonary Embolism (PE) and peripheral venous thrombosis. The two groups were compared using a multivariate logistic regression.

Results: We identified 514 RA patients that adhered to our inclusion criteria, 241 patients had been treated with HCQ for an average duration of 5 years and 273 patients had never been treated with the drug. We found that 13.3% of the treated patients suffered from cardiovascular events compared to 38.1% in the non-treated group. HCQ treatment had a significant protective effect for all cardiovascular events examined (OR=0.271, 95%CI 0.159 to 0.462). When comparing for specific endpoints we found a difference regarding the dosage of HCQ. A dose of 400mg per day of HCQ had a statistically significant protective effect for MI (OR= 0.405, 95%CI 0.181 to 0.908), for stroke and TIA (OR= 0.352, 95%CI 0.130 to 0.955) and for venous events (OR= 0.159, 95%CI 0.045 to 0.562). The lower dose of 200 mg per day demonstrated a protective effect for MI (OR=0.194, 95%CI 0.055 to 0.686), and no significant effect on other endpoints.

Conclusion: The use of HCQ is independently associated with decreased risk for cardiovascular morbidity among RA patients, particularly when using the higher dose of 400 mg per day. This newly demonstrated effect of HCQ should be considered in the overall management of RA.

Last edited by gold21 on Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Puce

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:48 pm

Just to throw a little fuel to the controversy on why this drug might be suppressed by some higher powers...here’s some food for thought:

https://www.ukcolumn.org/artic.....andal

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:49 pm

gold21 wrote:

The vast majority of people have a mild case and get better without taking any medication anyway. So if the protocol is for everyone to take it as soon as the symptoms appear then all this anecdotal evidence everyone keeps posting saying it works means absolutely nothing. You would need a really robust randomized trial to prove anything with this.

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 10:56 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

But, which symptoms? Most people have a mild case and get better without taking any medication anyway. So then all this anecdotal evidence everyone keeps posting saying it works would mean nothing.

The elderly, for starters

aka people at high risk

If most people have a mild case, then why are we in lockdown?

If some people are at high risk of a not-so-mild case, then HCQ should be made available to them.

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:02 pm

gold21 wrote:

Oh please. No one is saying that most people don't have mild cases. Once it is spread so widely then even a minority is thousands of people, as unfortunately we have seen in many countries.

I hear you about making it available to elderly people. However, I still don't think anyone can say there's evidence yet of it working. And I'm still waiting for someone to explain why it is hardly being used in any countries (even the graph posted above was fabricated) if this is all an effort to discredit Trump.

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:04 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Oh please. No one is saying that most people don't have mild cases. Once it is spread so widely then even a minority is thousands of people, as unfortunately we have seen in many countries.

Do tell.

So, you're saying that there is NOT any particular group you can think of that is considered to be high risk when contracting this virus?

Oh. Cuz the American media indicates otherwise. As does the medical community.

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:06 pm

gold21 wrote:

Do tell.

So, you're saying that there is NOT any particular group you can think of that is considered to be high risk when contracting this virus?

Where did I say that? Scratching Head

Sounds like you're trying to bait me here.

And anyway I added on to my post already before this.

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:08 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Where did I say that? Scratching Head

Sounds like you're trying to bait me here.

And anyway I added on to my post already before this.

Bait you? lol.

Why are you anon, by the way?

behappy2

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:11 pm

Pharmaceutical companies are trying to push a more profitable drug

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:11 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

OK. I see your added paragraph.

The WHO came out against HCQ. The WHO is a worldwide organization.

Also, HCQ has limited benefit. Once that early window of time is missed, its not particularly helpful. Studies back this up. So I can see why countries would be considering other options for therapeutics. Still, HCQ is a good option for those situations that warrant its usage, when the illness is caught early enough. HCQ cannot reverse the effects covid has on a person's immune system. It can only prevent it from establishing itself in the first place. Still, I would consider it a good option.

And to block access on the grounds that HCQ is a dangerous drug is ridiculous.

Last edited by gold21 on Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:15 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Goldenrod

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:13 pm

Can anyone weigh in about KJ ?
I heard that they BH had minimal negative impact from covid since their doctor and team were using this mixture of meds .Anybody have info ??

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:20 pm

ora_43 wrote:

In any case AFAIK there's no ban on hydroxychloroquine due to danger. There are (were?) bans on outpatient use in New York, specifically, to make sure people wouldn't hoard it and affect the supply.

Chloroquine is not banned in Michigan, New York and Nevada

Plenty of states and countries either stockpiled hydroxychloroquine, or banned exports, or restricted use. Because they thought it was good medicine, not because they think it's bad medicine. And they didn't want a situation where Joe and Jane Hoarder bought a 50-year supply and there was none left for actual covid19 patients, and of course the people who needed it pre-covid.

Now there's been a swing in the other direction. Nothing to do with Trump, who was the American president in April (back when everyone was stockpiling) just as much as he is today.

From the article you linked:

"New York, Nevada restrict access to chloroquine

New York and Nevada have limited access to chloroquine since Trump’s March 19 press briefing. But neither of the actions comprise an outright ban on the drug.

Take Nevada, for example. On March 24, Sisolak signed an emergency regulation that safeguards the supply of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, which is sold under the brand name Plaquenil and as a generic. The order prohibits doctors in outpatient settings from prescribing and dispensing the drugs for COVID-19 treatment. It also limits prescriptions to 30-day supplies.

"While the two drugs serve necessary medical purposes, there is no conclusive evidence at this time among COVID-19 experts or Nevada’s own medical health advisory team that the drugs provide treatment for COVID-19 patients," Sisolak said during a press conference. "The emergency regulation is aimed at preventing the hoarding of the drugs so those that actually need them can have access to them."

As several news outlets have reported, physicians around the country have started to prescribe themselves chloroquine in order to hoard it for their families. That hoarding has led to drug shortages in some parts of the country, affecting patients who take chloroquine regularly to treat conditions like lupus and arthritis.

Conservative organizations like Turning Point USA took Nevada’s order to mean Sisolak was banning any use of chloroquine for COVID-19 patients. But there is an exemption to the order.

A spokesman for Sisolak told KSNV-TV in Las Vegas that the regulation allows for a "chart order for an inpatient in an institutional setting," meaning that doctors in hospitals and emergency rooms can still prescribe chloroquine to treat patients diagnosed with COVID-19.

That’s similar to what the government has done in New York.

On March 23, Cuomo signed an executive order restricting the prescription of chloroquine "except when written as prescribed for an FDA-approved indication; or as part of a state approved clinical trial related to COVID-19 for a patient who has tested positive for COVID-19."

The state has acquired more than 800,000 doses of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for clinical trials. And while the Food and Drug Administration has said there are no approved drugs to treat or prevent the coronavirus, the agency is investigating whether chloroquine "can be used to treat patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 to potentially reduce the duration of symptoms." On March 28, the FDA signed an emergency authorization for the use of chloroquine to treat patients hospitalized with COVID-19.

The day before that action, Cuomo amended his previous restrictions on the drug.

The new rules allow health care providers to prescribe the drug for "patients in inpatient settings and acute settings; for residents in a subacute part of a skilled nursing facility; or as part of an study approved by an Institutional Review Board." The change means that, similar to Nevada, doctors in New York can now prescribe chloroquine to COVID-19 patients in hospitals and emergency rooms, but not in outpatient settings.

Bottom line: Neither Nevada nor New York currently bans the use of chloroquine to treat coronavirus patients."

gold21

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:22 pm

Ora, this medication only can be helpful in an outpatient setting. It is not particularly helpful in a hospital setting. Anyone paying any word of attention to the way this drug works (Andrew Cuomo, im looking at you) should know how backwards this ruling is. It blocks its usage in situations where it can be helpful and allows it in situations where it is pretty pointless.

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:22 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Can anyone weigh in about KJ ?
I heard that they BH had minimal negative impact from covid since their doctor and team were using this mixture of meds .Anybody have info ??

I may be wrong though I thought there aren't many elderly people living in KJ. If that's the case then this really wouldn't be evidence of anything, since it may have been given to mostly low-risk patients anyway.

(And although at very high risk, there are also plently of elderly people who survived without medication bh. That's why randomized clinical trials are needed rather than anecdotal evidence, in order to get a real picture of it's effectiveness.)

amother

cornflower

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:23 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

In Canada too, Remdesivir has also been approved by Health Canada for treatment of Covid-19.
Hydroxychloroquine failed the trials and is not being used.

amother

Pearl

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:24 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

In Canada too, Remdesivir has also been approved by Health Canada for treatment of Covid-19.
Hydroxychloroquine failed the trials and is not being used.

Exactly. This is the case in most countries.

And no, it's not just because of WHO. They've all been doing independent research as wel.

#BestBubby

Sat, Aug 01 2020, 11:25 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Source that Israel forbids using HCQ?