How come no one stopped the abuse?????

Success10

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:39 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Had what? There is no requirement to get the mother's written permission to feed a baby formula.

Once upon a time someone proposed a law to require the mother's consent and the feminists slammed it down claiming it shamed formula feeders, and it never passed and was never tried again.

I really don't think they are allowed to give a bottle in the hospital without your consent. I might be wrong, since I always consented. But there is a form to fill out, and one of the options is "nursing only" and it's attached to the bassinet, so they know if the baby cries, they must call the mother.

amother

Coffee

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:40 pm

Success10 wrote:

I think breastfeeding is highly valued in Israel, more than America, that's for sure. In the hospital, they do not release you and your baby until you have either taken a small BF course in the hospital, or have spoken one on one to a lactation consultant, even if you have made it clear you have no plans to nurse. Also, of course they are not allowed to give your baby a bottle without your consent. You fill out a form with your wishes regarding bottles soon after birth.

The course they had at least 2 years ago, but they did not have it 5 years ago.

The consent form, no. I've never been asked to sign a consent form.

It's true that it was never officially allowed and always the mother had to be asked. Officially.
But it's also true that babies routinely receive formula against the mother's wishes and even when she explicitly says NOT to feed her baby formula. If there is a consent form now, I'd like to know when it started being used, and if it's country-wide or hospital-dependent.

Success10

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:43 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

The course they had at least 2 years ago.

The consent form, no. I've never been asked to sign a consent form.

It's true that it was never officially allowed and always the mother had to be asked. Officially.
But it's also true that babies routinely receive formula against the mother's wishes and even when she explicitly says NOT to feed her baby formula. If there is a consent form now, I'd like to know when it started being used, and if it's country-wide or hospital-dependent.

I might be wrong about the form. Maybe it's not an official consent form, but rather just a paper listing your wishes regarding night feedings. But most hospitals have a rooming-in option these days, so that could maybe circumvent the problem.

amother

Coffee

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:44 pm

Success10 wrote:

There is a "nursing only" option but often it is not respected.

I have never been asked to fill out such a form and I've given birth in three different hospitals.

I personally room in but I know enough people who have had their babies fed formula without their knowledge, and some of them asked explicitly that their babies not receive formula. Many of them struggled to breastfeed afterwards and ended up weaning early because of those bottles in the hospital.

It's really common.

It's not officially allowed but it's one of those things that is done anyways and everyone looks the other way.

amother

Coffee

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:55 pm

Success10 wrote:

So maybe it's a form that's given to mothers who opt in for the nursery.

All I know is that I have dozens of friends and acquaintances whose babies received bottles of formula against their will.

It's one of the reasons (in addition to that nurseries are overworked...) why I always opt for rooming in. I've heard too many horror stories, and breastfeeding is too important to me to risk.

Rappel

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 4:55 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

How strange. This is different from my experiences, and I've never heard such stories from others. I gave birth in Har Hatzofim 4 years ago, and Ein Kerem 2 years ago. In both, I signed a preference form regarding feeding and rooming of some kind.

Because of that form, Har Hatzofim WOULD NOT feed my baby formula, and the staff roused me in the middle of the night to nurse until I specifically changed my request. (Baby was in the nursery.) My room was also plastered with "mother's milk is best" posters.

Ein Kerem was much less tacky, and every nurse in the full-rooming ward was a trained nursing coach. They came and assisted me with nursing day and night until I was sure I was on track. I found them to be super helpful and supportive.

amother

Seashell

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 7:44 pm

So here's my question. I hope I don't get bashed. This is all theoretical because schools and daycares aren't open here due to covid.
I'm due in two months and my current baby will be 18 months old. I was planning on starting here in daycare because the thought of having her home all day with a newborn is terrifying. She's adorable, inquisitive, a little bit of a daredevil and I can't leave her alone for a second.
Is it so terrible? I'm a Sahm, and from all the comments here, I'm feeling that somehow this plan means I'm failing.
Anyway, as I said nothing is open and I doubt my mother will be able to come due to border closings etc. I have no idea what I'm going to do

amother

Rose

Sat, Aug 15 2020, 11:13 pm

banana123 wrote:

Developmentally, though, there's a huge difference between an 18mo and a 2.5yo.

I don't know. Maybe there is something wrong with me? With her?

Even when I sit and play with her on the floor, her attention span is limited and she gets bored and impatient. She's claustrophobic in our tiny apartment and runs around in circles.

When we go to my parents/in-laws, who both have a huge playroom with tons of toys and lots of young kids, she is happier and plays nicely.

Maybe I'm a bad mother that I cannot imagine her being home all day, every day.

banana123

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:15 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Neither. I think your expectations are off.

You're interpreting running around in circles as being claustrophobic. She probably doesn't feel claustrophobic - she's dancing, or practicing running.

Her attention span is limited, like that of almost every other 18mo. It's not because you're boring or because she's bored of you. She's just little. And you don't have to entertain her, btw - she'll be very happy playing with anything she can find. It's part of exploring the world.

How old are the other kids at your parents/ in-laws? Remember that everything is new and different there. And also, remember that YOU are there with her. She can explore, play, run off, and all the while knows that if she needs you, you're there for her. It's perfect.

For you of course it's different. You probably are bored and feel claustrophobic. On the other hand, if more mothers were SAHMs then you would have a large group of friends and you'd feel less isolated and understimulated.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:26 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I've had similar thoughts, honestly. Especially because I WFH. But I don't feel like it's fair to my 22mo to send to daycare before we were planning to and before he is ready, just because two babies and working from home is going to be too much for me. I have a history of PPD, so maybe I'm being stupid and it would be better to go the daycare route, but I can't stomach prioritizing my "mental health" (I believe a lot of is in my control) over my baby's welfare, and I would feel like an enormous hypocrite if I sent to daycare just for my own sanity....

Plus I think it would make sibling rivalry worse, because in addition to being really little and replaced by someone littler, my toddler will probably feel kicked out of the house in favor of the new baby. That could be my projection but from what I've seen with other kids, it's not...two transitions at once (daycare and a new baby) are a lot, and most kids I've seen who were sent out around when a new baby was born were very very not nice to the new baby...I know some who were sent out to daycare a couple months after a new baby was born, before that they handled the baby okay but when they went to daycare they started hitting, biting, pinching the baby every time their mother turned her back.

If you can afford daycare, though, then maybe you could pay for a mother's helper to come in a few hours a day? That's what I'll probably do, if I can get over the fear of whoever it is infecting us with covid (we are careful but we have no control over how careful other people and their family members are).

Nothing is open, I don't think anyone will be able to come help out, and the only one who could can't afford to quarantine 2 weeks here and 2 weeks there so it's almost certain she won't come.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 4:13 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

As long as you research a good one. I'm just saying in general it's very hard to juggle 6 babies. If they are all on bottles it's actually easier. But if they all need fed by hand.... That age it's hard to find someone so incredibly organized who will get them on schedule and not neglect them.

Would you consider a mishoachton? Someone who takes multiple age groups? So then it won't be 6 kids to feed by hand and there might even be an assistant?

doodlesmom

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 2:45 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Why don’t you hire help in your house instead. She can be available for either kid when necessary.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 2:54 pm

doodlesmom wrote:

Why don’t you hire help in your house instead. She can be available for either kid when necessary.

So I'm trying to find someone, it's not so easy. I do have cleaning help three times a week and she can also help out with the kids but if I'm home my toddler will always run to me. Never mind trying to juggle the four older kids on their zoom classes.
I'm loving having everyone home but I wish they would go back to school for the two/three weeks after the baby is born.
Oh well, Hashem runs the world, He gave us this pandemic, He will have to give me koach.
I don't live in Israel, here daycare is top notch (also expensive) but totally worth it. I just have never sent so young. I was planning on starting her now so that she would be settled by sukkos (when I'm due). I'm also trying to get her to sleep through the night so I can move her out of my room.
I've never had such a small gap before. It's a bit much to think about in advance with this whole quarentine/lockdown.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:05 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

You will find a way. Hashem blessed you with these children, and I really admire your commitment to actually parent them and not just ship them off.

You might want to consider birth control for a bit, to get some more spacing between your next kids. Too many too close together is not good for your body, and you need time to recover so will will have enough energy for each child.