S/O children abused in childcare.Tips to lessen that chance?

behappy2

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 5:07 am

banana123 wrote:

The center that started the original thread had none of these red flags.

And they came highly recommended, with a name as one of the best centers in the city.

You sure they didn't have too many babies? One babysitter I sent to my daughter was a very verbal toddler and told me that one of the boys was hurting her. I told the babysitter and she made excuses. Then one time I came to pick her up and heard shrieking from my daughter. I burst in and sure enough she was being hurt and the babysitter was ignoring her. If they don't take you seriously then you can't trust them.

I didn't say these are the only red flags.

banana123

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 5:07 am

To answer the original question:

Look for a legally-operating center with a low child-caregiver ratio (1 caregiver for every 2-3 babies), where caregivers have passed some kind of licensing course, and have first-aid certification as well. Look for a place with enough space (I forget how many square feet per child), and check for safety hazards. Ask how they would handle various situations.

And as others have said, pop in a few times at random times, and pull your child out immediately if you sense that the baby is not happy there. Ask around and see if anyone you know and trust has sent there, and what they have to say. Ask about insurance policies, cameras, and what happens when a caregiver is sick. Check if they have a contract, and if they do, what it says.

Also, while you usually schedule pre-registration visits (where they show you around) ahead of time, make a second visit, unannounced, "just because you were in the area and wanted to see the place again." Often that unannounced visit reveals a lot.

banana123

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 5:09 am

behappy2 wrote:

AFAIK, no. 46 children in three groups comes out to about 15 children in each age group, and there were at least 2 metaplot per class (one class had 3 - there were 7 of them arrested), so for the older groups that's more metaplot than legally required, and for the younger group, it's exactly what's required.

Certainly if they did, it would come out in the videos and would've been mentioned somewhere in the reports of abuse.

behappy2

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 5:21 am

banana123 wrote:

2 baby sitters for 15 little kids is not normal. Legal or not. This is probably not legal in NY. Side point, in Israel where labor is cheaper I got someone to come to my house and babysit and do light housework at the same time. Sweet young, chareidi woman.

banana123

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 5:26 am

behappy2 wrote:

2 baby sitters for 15 little kids is not normal. Legal or not. This is probably not legal in NY.

I was responding to the amother who said she "cannot understand how any mother can in good conscience send to a place" where there are 6 babies to one adult. So I just said that here it's legal, and the daycare center that sparked the original thread is in Israel, and it's a mindset thing.

So then you asked if I was sure they didn't have too many kids. Yes I'm sure, they met the legal requirements.

I agree that it is not normal or healthy, but that's probably because I did not grow up in Israel. Here it is seen as normal and there is nothing really wrong with it, plenty of otherwise good moms send there and don't worry too much because everyone does it, everyone went to such places, and everyone is fine. Meaning, survivor bias and a lack of understanding of what actually happens there...

Whatever....I know it's not legal everywhere, but I did want to note that here it is legal and not seen as an issue, other than by crazy people like myself. Smile

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:34 am

I would say see and be tuned in to your child's feelings or if he cries every morning etc. You are his only advocate especially if they are not verbal yet. Definitely pop in at random times.
A legal place is good but not a guarantee.
We must do our part to make sure our kids are well tended to. And daven!

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:48 am

tichellady wrote:

I would not be comfortable with one adult with more than 2 babies or 2 adults with more than 5 or 6 babies.

What about 18-24 month olds? Would you think a group of 3-4 kids and one morah would be ok at that age? Deciding about where to send my son. In my mind that was a good size for that age bec I know of many playgroups that age with 10-12 plus kids.

banana123

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 8:56 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

I think that should be fine, at that age. Though I would rather 3 and not 4.

amother

Pink

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:03 am

I don’t dont feel legal places are better.
I’d rather someone I know.
When that doesn’t work I research. Reasearch. Research. Call neighbors. Past students parents. Meet her. Drive by.
I’m buying into the teacher 100%. That is my deciding factor. She will be interacting with my child. Not the institution.
(I once sent to s legal place. It was so rigid by the rules. Lacking warmth and personality. The ratio was made low by women hired to clean and change diapers).
While I think an assistant helps. I don’t love assistants. When there is an assistant the teachers shmooze among themselves. When there is no assistant the students get 100% conversation.

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:10 am

Talking about babysitters, what about the elderly ladies who babysit davka babies because they're supposedly easier.... I know someone who only has 2 or 3 babies but if she doesn't like you, your baby will get yelled at like there's no tomorrow. I have a close relative that I hang up on because I can't take her yelling at the crying baby. She obviously has no patience and is doing it solely for the money.
I know of someone else who babysits tons of kids and doesn't properly take care of them. If a mother forgot to send lunch, too bad, the kid will starve because the babysitter will not give from her own pantry.
I don't understand how people can babysit babies and toddlers and not have that love for them.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 9:25 am

I know pple will say you never know and that this isn’t true, but I do feel like vibes are a big thing. When meeting someone, seeing them around the neighborhood etc, I do feel you can sense things somewhat. I would not rely only on that, but intuition is powerful.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 2:27 pm

Can we talk about here in Israel?

Obviously the official maonot are out - specifically in my area they have a very bad reputation of being cold, having a revolving door of workers (no stability)

I found someone who seems wonderful, has a group of up to 4 (she has the last slot for my baby) 10-15 month old's and has been doing this for a few years with a good reputation but it still makes me nervous. It is a legal mishpachton but honestly with all these stories of abuse in he news in legal places that doesn't calm me.

I kept her home until now because I extended chufshat leida and then worked from home because of corona,but won't be able to continue...

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:16 pm

If your sending a pre-verbal baby, you are risking your baby. period.

If you must send baby to babysitter choose a relative or friend/neighbor that you
know very well and trust.

amother

Mint

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:20 pm

Scary. Some people are better fakers than others. B"H some do reveal themselves. Once I checked out a preschool in E"Y and the owner told me it was their first year as it paid better than being an insurance agent. Between that and seeing the staff and place itself in action, no way. We were lucky it was so clear. I feel so terrible for the kids and parents who really had little way of knowing!!! B"H the truth became revealed. Sick just sick.

amother

Silver

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:35 pm

banana123 wrote:

If you're talking about Israel, those checks are few and far between. VERY few and far between. And since apparently spontaneous checks will now be allowed, I can only conclude that previously, all checks were scheduled and staff knew about them ahead of time.

But maybe you're not talking about Israel....

No, I'm in NJ. Didn't see the other thread before. 6:1 ratio is terrible! That's where the change needs to happen. In NJ it's 4:1 under 18 months and I still think that's a little high--it really should be 3 or less.

amother

Purple

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:38 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

If your sending a pre-verbal baby, you are risking your baby. period.

If you must send baby to babysitter choose a relative or friend/neighbor that you
know very well and trust.

Some people have to work to put bread on their table. And not all have that sort of network available. Can we be kinder to mothers who obviously are already very nervous and be supportive while giving tips. Let's not guilt people for doing the best they can.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:43 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

If your sending a pre-verbal baby, you are risking your baby. period.

If you must send baby to babysitter choose a relative or friend/neighbor that you
know very well and trust.

Uhm that's not really an option if there is no parental support and if both spouses are working.

amother

Gray

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:51 pm

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

I think very few families must have both parents working to literally put bread on the table.
If you are willing to drop your standards and make sacrifices then you can afford to have one spouse working from home or not working at all.
Even if you no support network at all.
Obviously everyone has a right to live the lifestyle they want, but let's admit that this is more an issue of priorities and lifestyle than it is of putting food on the table.
Obv. I'm not referring to families where the medical bills are so high that they have no choice...

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 16 2020, 3:53 pm

I just posted this on the "newborn" thread, but I'll put it here, too:

Babysitter (teenager) or nanny (responsible adult) = one person per family.

10 babies all together = illegal, unlicensed day care.

Do you really want to take the risk?

Please hire a nanny who can take care of the baby in your home. If nothing else, your child won't be at risk for catching germs from all the other children. A nanny can do light house keeping and organizing while the baby is sleeping.

If your salary won't cover a person who you trust, who will treasure your child like their own, and is loyal to your family - then you really need to rethink whether it's worth it to go back to work.

BTW, my daughter's pediatrician said that no one should ever put a baby in a group setting until after they are 3 months old, and have had their first full set of immunizations. If you are anti-vax, then I guess that advice doesn't apply.