Nice Parenting Ruining Kids?

Mommyg8

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:04 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

So you agree that this thread is talking about abuse, but not as awful as the other thread.
Hitting is abuse. It doesn’t mean you’ll be traumatized from it.
Where do you draw the line where abuse goes from regular hitting to “the most awful”?

Um, no I don't agree on that at all. Hitting is a regular, normal chinch method.

Like I said earlier, I'm not engaging further and like OP, no, I dont see all these wonderful children nowadays that everyone on this thread seems to be talking about. I see a generation of kids with alphabet soup labels, a generation of kids on medication (ask your school secretary how many doses of medication she gives out a day, and nowadays some are longer lasting so she wouldn't know). I see a generation of kids who are chutzpahdik, dont follow rules, act entitled, and dont listen to authority. But according to you all it's all good, as long as you never hit your child Can't Believe It

....

amother

Mint

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:08 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

....

Ay... we also were alphabet kids... only no one cared enough to alphabet us or get us the help we needed... or maybe there was just less awareness- who knows. Lucky kids who get the proper help. Lucky parents too! (And brave)
ETA: oh- and this was with spanking...

amother

Papaya

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:10 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

....

Yeah your previous statement actually confirms that you agree.
You don’t have to answer this, because you’re not engaging anyway, but where do diagnoses come in? And piggybacking off of that, maybe in the older generation there were way too many undiagnosed cases. So some poor kids were being beat up because “chinuch”, where instead they actually could have benefitted more from medication than from abuse. Nebach.
And there are ways to actively parent without using abuse. Plain old “not yelling or beating my kids” is not parenting.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:45 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

....

Hitting is NOT normal chinuch. Not. Show me one parenting expert or Rav or whatever in these times that says hitting is normal.
Hitting is NOT normal. Just like it is not normal to hit your friend or spouse, it is not normal to hit a child.

Why are you so adamant to prove that hitting is ok? What do you gain from that? It's sad that you are desperate to make hitting seem like normal chinuch when it is not.

It didn't affect you personally, if I believe your claim. Listen to the hundreds of thousands of others who say differently.
And there is also trauma of those who watched their siblings get hit.

Maybe your parents were tzaddikim and didn't let out their anger, ego, stress, "rightful position as a parent," financial worries, exhaustion, etc., once they started hitting. Most people are not tzaddikim.

We teach our kids to use their words instead of their hands and fists. Parents, use your words. Communicate effectively and responsibly. Sometimes words aren't even needed, just a listening ear. Every child has something he needs or that motivates him. Never a hit.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 8:55 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There is another thread right now where a mother is asking how to gently parent when her child bangs on walls, yells early morning when s/he is aware other children and neighbors are sleeping, is rude to parents and even calls parents names amongst other actions. I'm just confused about how any of these behaviors can be allowed to be repeated because they are very very concerning. BH we don't deal with these behaviors but to me they are all just a unacceptable as running into a street. Why would you "respectfully" communicate without any discipline or consequences with someone who just intentionally misbehaved and yelled and banged on walls and woke up 5 other people? Or why give a child stickers and presents because they behaved like a normal, respectful human being by NOT waking other people up? I can't relate to that.

Please don’t give that home as an example.
They seem extremely challenged( put mildly), and I don’t think hitting would help there anyway.
I hope they get the real help they need.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:06 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You give a child rewards for good behavior because that is how you train the child to have more good behavior. As a child matures he needs less prizes and stickers and the good behavior stays with him.
That is chinuch.

behappy2

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:35 am

Sarah chana radcliffes book Delicate Balance I think will adress your concerns while pointing you in the right direction.

As an aside time out and consenquences can take the place of corporal and other punishments. With a mixture of love, connection, validation, time, explaining, modeling, proper environmental accommodations and more your children can grow up to be respectful, caring, loving adults.. There really is a recipe (my personal belief). Another thing is that it's not magic and not immediate. Today they might be more challenging bec they aren't deathly afraid of you but in the long run they will do better.

ExtraCredit

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:40 am

You know when you read a book about the Holocaust and then have nightmares about it at night?
I literally couldn’t stop thinking about it last night, that there are yiddisha kinderlech somewhere out there whose mom hits them with a belt and is perfectly comfortable with the method to post it publicly.
Anyone else?
I mamish want to take these kids home. (Hope they won’t grow up to be animals)

amother

Beige

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:50 am

ExtraCredit wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread and I don't think I will - it will probably be too painful.

I am a child of parents who hit with a belt. I happened to be a goody-goody - I was terrified so I did whatever they said most of the time. So I only got hit with hands - slapped across the face, the backside, etc....I've had my own trauma to deal with, but not as much as my sister.

But I'd like to tell you about my sister who got hit with a belt. And slapped. And pushed. And everything else. She's a strong personality, she fought back, she got beaten till she backed down.

You know what she is now? A traumatized adult. Her son, who is on heavy meds and has severe behavioral issues, steals, is creepy, and more...her daughter, who struggles valiantly but attempted suicide and spent months in a facility where she finally got some help...her youngest, who seems to be headed to the same place, severe behavioral issues out of control, G-d help us as he has to get into school this year.....

And there are people who think this kind of parenting is normal?

I'd like to call you mothers who hit with a belt what you are: ABUSIVE.

To all my sisters out there who were parented like this or saw it: Hug

The only way we will stop such abuse and the damage it causes is by calling it what it is, and getting people to make a conscious change to stop.

#BestBubby

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:00 am

ChanieMommy wrote:

I think this is a misconception.
When you start hitting, you often enter a vicious circle where children become more and more recalcitrant.

I saw my parents do it to my brother: hitting did not stop his misbehavior, he went on and on "misbehaving" and so those spanking sessions were repeated again and again.

Corporal punishment certainly is not a durable way to stop misbehavior.

Children are INDIVIDUALS. What works on some children may not work on others.

The point is - is your method working to produce children who are MOSTLY respectful and
co-operative? (I don't expect 100% obedience from any method)

As others have said, I have witnessed many children raised with "gentler" methods who are
completely out of control and abusive. I think those children who are allowed to abuse their
parents and siblings will do the same to their spouse and children.

amother

Mint

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:03 am

ExtraCredit wrote:

If they do I’ll take them in. I’m quite fond of animals myself!

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:08 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Please don’t give that home as an example.
They seem extremely challenged( put mildly), and I don’t think hitting would help there anyway.
I hope they get the real help they need.

Are you serious?
I'm the op of that thread. They are not extremely challenged. They are boys. Do you have little boys?

#BestBubby

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:10 am

bigsis144 wrote:

No, but the end goal of a gentler method (like Collaborative Problem Solving or the Nurtured Heart) is not to produce “obedient” children.

The end goal is to produce ADULTS who respect the rights of others, can be successful as
spouse, parent and employee/employer (I.e. responsible)

bigsis144

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:22 am

#BestBubby wrote:

The end goal is to produce ADULTS who respect the rights of others, can be successful as
spouse, parent and employee/employer (I.e. responsible)

You were the one that demanded “obedience” (IE results) by age 2...

I’m saying that good parenting isn’t afraid of kids who haven’t “learned their lesson” immediately, and that harsh punishments feel like instant gratification of a need to “teach”. It takes much longer and more than a potch.

Change might be at a glacial rate, and that’s scary and discouraging sometimes, I admit. But the finish line is much farther away.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Wed, Sep 09 2020, 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total