Masks are NOT proven to protect anyone or prevent anything

DrMom

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:05 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Ok but if we're all doing what we're supposed to be doing then we're staying home with any symptoms. Masks are supposed to be for the asymptomatics I thought. In any case, if someone has no symptoms and never sneezes or coughs, what would be the benefit of wearing a mask?

Because even people who aren't showing full-blown symptoms cough or sneeze on occasion.
Because everybody exhales and talks.

wiki

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:08 pm

Some people won't ever trust the big studies, no matter how scientific they are. So here's two anecdotes instead:

In March, a church in Skagit County, Washington State held choir practice. No one was masked, and one person there was symptomatic for Covid. Of the 62 people in attendance at choir practice, where everyone was singing and no one was social distancing, 32 contracted Covid and 20 others did subsequently. Three were hospitalized and two died.

In May, Missouri reopened its businesses, including hair salons. Two salon employees went back to work in that first week and were positive for Covid. They had worked on 67 clients during the days when they were Covid positive, right before they got test results.

The hairstylists wore masks at work. None of their 67 clients were infected.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm simply baffled why people talk about a mask like it's a no-brainer when in actuality it raises so many more issues than it helps with
and like another poster said - every article contradicts the previous one
there is just no clarity around the topic
and yet the government and others require masks and shame non-maskers in a manner that makes you wonder where they get they're facts from

The masks will ultimately cause more problems then help. If they help, it isn't much. But some people who wear them all day are getting rashes and sores around their mouths. There was a school shut down due to strep throat outbreak - believed to have been caused from kids sitting all day in masks. And staying away from people means our immune systems aren't being exposed to much of anything and will weaken. Next will come a lousy under-tested and dangerous vaccine. Just wait and see the fallout.

simcha2

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

As I said above, there are plenty of studies that say you are simply wrong.

Yes, a virus is tiny. But the virus requires a mode of transmission. It is delivered via respiratory droplets. These are relatively large and are stopped by masks.

It is not political.

If you are getting your information from articles on line, then of course you'll find contradictory information. Because most of these articles are ridiculous and designed to push an agenda.

If you are actually interested in the science but don't have the education to read science journals, I suggest reading the latest overview article in Nature.

(You can look up Nature, it is one of the top journals out there).

youngishbear

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:15 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Which is it?

amother

Copper

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:15 pm

DrMom wrote:

Because even people who aren't showing full-blown symptoms cough or sneeze on occasion.
Because everybody exhales and talks.

The argument I was responding to is that a mask is better than no mask for large expulsions. As for whether they are helpful for mere speaking, again that's back to the studies. It seems the viral microns are way smaller than the pores in the mask. An analogy I saw was, like a chain link fence keeping out mosquitos. As for whether or not that's a good analogy, again, we have to go back to the studies.

amother

Copper

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:17 pm

simcha2 wrote:

And this goes back to the argument that the mask is only helpful if someone is sneezing or coughing.

pause

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:21 pm

wiki wrote:

The two employees who were positive for Covid likely weren't contagious anymore. A positive Covid test does not indicate level of contagion. For all we know, they also already had antibodies.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:24 pm

youngishbear wrote:

Which is it?

Bacteria causes strep.
So sitting in a dirty mask is problematic. It doesn't have to be just scrubbed a public restroom dirty. Just wearing for hours and hours, taking off to eat, go outside, then putting back on, etc. could be enough.

Separate issue from the idea that being out and about in the world, being around people, touching things without using hand sanitizer 46 x per day exposes us to many things that our healthy bodies fight off without us ever getting sick. That's what immune systems do. If you live in a bubble, your immune system gets weak, not strong.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:26 pm

I have no problem if people want to do their own research. I have not, so for now I trust my doctors who recommend masks. Most of the anti maskers I know did not do their own research. (Following Instagram stories isn’t research.) OP, did you do research that shows masks don’t help, and if yes, can you please post?

amother

Red

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:27 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

And this goes back to the argument that the mask is only helpful if someone is sneezing or coughing.

even if masks are only useful for coughing the small percentage of people coughing are less likely to whip out a mask when they are coughing since they won’t be in the habit of carrying one, and or won’t want to be the odd ball wearing a mask.

DrMom

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:30 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Virus particles don't generally fly around as lone particles. If they are in your respiratory system, they will be contained in your respiratory fluid.

You don't need to cough or sneeze to emit respiratory particles (although obviously a cough or sneeze lets out more fluid and more forcefully than talking or breathing does).

You emit small fluid particles when you exhale. That's why you fog up a mirror when you exhale.

NotInNJMommy

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think I'm trying to say that people who are not complying are doing so because
they don't see the point

I think there's a lot of non compliance with social distancing, which seems to be a bigger problem. Masks aren't supposed to really replace social distancing 100%

For the sake of argument that the costs outweigh the benefits for using masks, are you strict on social distancing, quarantining/isolation, etc. and avoiding mass events greater than the legal limit or where social distancing is not practiced or possible?

Last edited by NotInNJMommy on Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

wiki

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm not untrusting wiki

just tell me
did all 67 people who came to the salon test for the virus?

Read the cited study. 67 people were traced and agreed to be monitored and tested. All of them tested negative.

There were other salon patrons also that they were not able to follow up with--139 clients in all. But if these other clients had come down with Covid, local contract tracers would have probably been able to make the connection to the salon. The hairdressers made headline news when they tested positive, even before the follow-up study was published.

youngishbear

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:33 pm

amother [ Seafoam ] wrote:

Please explain this to me again.

You say that masks prevent exposure to "things" that our immune system needs to fight off in order to stay strong.

I'm assuming these "things" are germs, which is a catch-all term for bacteria and viruses.

You also say that kids got sick with strep because their masks were dirty. Where do you think the step bacteria came from?

I don't know about the outbreak you are referring to, but to me it seems to show the masks did not prevent germs from passing around, rather than them keeping our immune system in a bubble.

The two points you raised are opposites and undermine your argument.

I agree with you that dirty masks are a bad idea. I would recommend changing them more frequently, not putting them on and off multiple times, making sure they're worn properly, etc.

DrMom

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:34 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think I'm trying to say that people who are not complying are doing so because
they don't see the point

The idea behind mask-wearing is not new. Furthermore, it has been explained during the current pandemic ad nauseum in the news.

Someone who doesn't see the point by now is probably trying very hard to miss it.

Even if you don't see the point, you should obey rules.

wiki

Mon, Oct 12 2020, 3:37 pm

pause wrote:

The two employees who were positive for Covid likely weren't contagious anymore. A positive Covid test does not indicate level of contagion. For all we know, they also already had antibodies.

Read the study. They tracked down clients who had seen the hairstylists from the days before the onset of symptoms and also the first two days of symptoms, which is when Covid is generally most contagious.