Masks are NOT proven to protect anyone or prevent anything

amother

Mustard

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 3:32 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Firstly, I wouldn't put masks and SD into the same category. Nor does the CDC, fwiw. If you look at the website, in determining whether one may have been exposed to someone with covid, it does not take into account whether either or both of you were or were not wearing a mask. The relevant factors are distance and time.

But to answer the question with that in mind, I don't know if that's true that places where there is no mask wearing have higher increases in cases. Assuming it is, I think that another factor, urban density, is probably the biggest indicator of how quickly the virus will spread which also supports the distancing.

Actually in Israel, a mask it taken into account. For example, a teacher who discovers that one of her pupils tested positive. If she or the pupil was unmasked, then she will need to go into quarantine for 14 days and get tested, even if a 2 metre distance was kept.

However, if both she and pupil were properly masked (over the nose) there is a good chance she will NOT have to go into quarantine. (This from epidemiological decisions in real schools, from a committee from the Ministry of Health).

amother

Mustard

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 3:38 am

I really don't get the resistance to masks, which common sense and much research would indicate actually work. And if not common sense and research, then the law and public opinion should be enough to push someone to mask up.

I don't get the drama of declaring masks to be torture. I mean, this is coming from a segment of society who wears stockings daily, covers the collarbone, wears a wig or mitpachat, long sleeves, long skirts - even in the heat of summer. Frum Jews, particularly the more RW, are used to uncomfortable dress!! What's the big deal with a mask? Why the sudden yearning to be 'free'? Are you really free in the rest of your dress?

If anything, frum Jews should be more used than anyone to making compromises with dress in order to reach a higher goal.

amother

Sienna

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 5:01 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Yes! This!
My neighbors got corona and we hung out when she didn't know she had it. We were both masked and 6 ft apart and I did not have to quarrantine at all. I don't think I have corona (of course I could be asymptomatic but this happened 3 weeks ago and I see my family without SD and masks (and only my family) where there are high risk people. If I would of got it someone in our family or my parents family would of have symptoms.

LovesHashem

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 5:04 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

I disagree that its necessarily easy. I have a chiyuv to do those things, while if someone thinks masks are useless it's a lot harder to do it. (masks aren't useless - but yeah). Even though I know I need to wear a mask and believe it's necessary that doesn't mean it's easy. Wearing a head covering is very difficult for many women as well. I really miss my big curls, it feels like it's a part of my personality.

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 7:56 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Speaking only for myself and my experience, and putting aside entirely the issue of whether I think masks are particularly useful or not -- I'm a BT. Yes, I wear sheitel, stockings, the whole bit. But it's a choice I made for myself. It doesn't necessitate that a mask will be easy for me to wear. In fact, I can tolerate mask wearing for all of 5-10 minutes to run in and out of the grocery store. That's it. I have PTSD from childhood abuse, struggle with authority, and had childhood asthma as well. All of these things make wearing a mask both emotionally traumatic and physically difficult. It literally feels like I'm being dominated, oppressed, and abused. Consider yourself lucky that you "don't get the drama".

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:07 am

DrMom wrote:

I'm going to refuse to cover my mouth when I cough unless someone proves this helps not spread germs. I don't see why it's so important. Germs are tiny; my hand/elbow/tissue can't block them.

I'm not going to use carseats anymore. What an inconvenience! Totally unnecessary if you just avoid accidents. Why doesn't the govt help us drive better instead of forcing us to use carseats? Ditto for seatbelts.

Also, I read on the internet somewhere that smoking does NOT cause lung cancer. It's just a plot to destroy the tobacco companies. I'm going to light up anywhere I please.

If this is a response to me, it's to what I didn't say. For the enth time, I'm not addressing whether we SHOULD wear masks anyway, only that the science does not clearly support it. The fact that it seems to make intuitive sense, doesn't mean that it's conclusively backed by science. I do think that if it were that obvious, the science would be easily settled though. It would've been settled back when we had SARs in 2002 or 2004, swine flu in 2009 or MERs in 2012.

And my real point is that if one takes that position, they're not ignoring science because the science does not support. I'm frankly surprised at the emotionally-charged responses here.

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:08 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Further indicating that the science on this is not settled.

DrMom

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:15 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

AFAIK, mask-wearing was not taken into account when determining who goes into quarantine, at least not in my city.

I think the Min of Health was just not interested in figuring out who was masked and who was not in a classroom of 18 kids, so they erred on the side of caution and threw everyone into quarantine, a least when it came to schools.

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:21 am

imorethanamother wrote:

Feel free to PM me for my experience working at congregate care facilities and finding a positive covid case. If you don’t wear PPE, it spreads. We can literally see the evidence on video footage and trace it back to the infected staff member who infected others. Masks and gloves work. That’s how we can have a positive case and test everyone else and have them remain negative.

I hope this makes you feel better about your sacrifice.

The question is, is the way PPE is worn at nursing facilities and hospitals similar to the way they're worn by the public? Doesn't seem so.

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:52 am

DrMom wrote:

Probably also because there is a range in quality and effectiveness of masks, nor are they all worn properly.

amother

Mustard

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 8:55 am

DrMom wrote:

If the teacher was masked the whole time, there were cases where she did not go into quarantine.

Mommyg8

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 9:39 am

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

Are you saying it's worth it to wear masks just in case they work? Perhaps, although I was making a different point; that many studies published in peer reviewed scientific journals, yes, studies already previously concluded, demonstrate masks' lack of effectiveness.

As for myself, since you asked, I do sd, wear masks in public and make sure my family does the same. I do it out of courtesy for others, not because I think it makes any difference (the masks).

You - and others on this site - keep saying that there are numerous studies, published in peer reviewed scientific studies, that prove that masks are not effective against the coronavirus. I asked you before, and I'll ask you again - can you link? Show me anything, peer reviewed, not peer reviewed, anything.

Thanks.

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 2:16 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Did you see the article I posted above? Here it is again:
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed.....masks

The article isn't important. The author includes several links to peer reviewed studies, and probably another dozen links to articles and other sources. Rather than me copy and paste each of them, as I wrote previously, I recommend anyone interested in understanding the science, or in understanding what this debate is about, to review the internal cites.

Also. Graphs showing death peaks seemingly unaffected by mask mandates in various countries. Maybe there are other factors at play, but at best, this doesn’t look like a strong showing that the mask mandates accomplished anything.
https://rationalground.com/mask-charts/

CDC report from a few days ago found that in July, more than 70% of outpatients with covid reported always wearing a mask. Maybe they were all lying about their mask usage. Maybe there was some other benefit brought by the mask, despite getting sick. But this doesn’t demonstrate clear effectiveness of masks.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum.....H.pdf

CDC’s meta analysis of 14 controlled, extended trials in May found no reduction in flu from masks.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/arti.....ticle

CDC explaining why, in determining whether one had covid exposure, mask wearing isn’t taken into account. In sum, the science is not solid enough: “While research indicates masks may help those who are infected from spreading the infection, there is less information regarding whether masks offer any protection for a contact exposed to a symptomatic or asymptomatic patient. Therefore, the determination of close contact should be made irrespective of whether the person with COVID-19 or the contact was wearing a mask.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru......html

dancingqueen

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 2:44 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Exactly. It’s so interesting.

dancingqueen

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 4:43 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

CDC explaining why, in determining whether one had covid exposure, mask wearing isn’t taken into account. In sum, the science is not solid enough: “While research indicates masks may help those who are infected from spreading the infection, there is less information regarding whether masks offer any protection for a contact exposed to a symptomatic or asymptomatic patient. Therefore, the determination of close contact should be made irrespective of whether the person with COVID-19 or the contact was wearing a mask.”
https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru......html

That’s just saying that science has demonstrated that the greatest benefit of masks is in preventing the spread of covid from someone who has it to others, instead of the other way around. More on the benefits of masks:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020.....event

amother

Yellow

Tue, Oct 13 2020, 10:38 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Yes, I agree...

There should be a re-evaluation of priorities...if sheytel and mask are too much, maybe replace sheytel with tichel, and it will be OK...