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Covid vaccine and PCR Covid tests

 
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 2:23 am
Hi
I am hoping to get answers and opinions from fellow imas.
To my understanding the covid 19 PCR test works by multiplying greatly the particles taken from the nasal swab or saliva and then looking to locate a large enough quantity of the virus protein that is known to be associated with covid 19.
From what I have seen and read, most of the new covid vaccines will work based in triggering spike proteins identical or almost identical to the spike proteins a real covid 19 infection induces and thus trigger the hoped for immune response.
mRNA is one of the technologies used for this which is a whole discussion in and of itself, but even without mRNA technology spike proteins are definitely used in majority of the vaccines.
So down to my question.
If someone were to be injected with the covid 19 vaccine, and then soon thereafter within a number of days be tested for covid 19, isn't that likely to cause a very probable false positive result on the covid test? Since the protein strand the covid test is looking for after the mass multiplication is done, is the same or almost the same as the spike protein the vaccine is meant to cause the body cells to produce.
So if after vaccines are introduced, the same PCR testing is still used as a means of determining lock downs or quarantines we are bound for a whole lot of false positives and unnecessary lockdown measures.
Please reply with any information or opinions on this
I am very curious.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 7:55 am
Bump
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 7:57 am
The creator/inventor of this test said many times that it is not diagnostic. Apparently it also says soon the package.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 8:41 am
Thanks. Well yeah I never thought it should be diagnostic either absent any symptoms.
But the fact is they use test results as a deciding factor on quarantines and lockdown measures and tracking supposed percentages of the virus in the population. So if my theory is true, then the moment vaccines are mass administered the number of positive cases will skyrocket.
I suppose there is no way to know for sure until that actually plays itself out.
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amother




Slategray
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 9:16 am
Iymnok wrote:
The creator/inventor of this test said many times that it is not diagnostic. Apparently it also says soon the package.


If it's not diagnostic, then what exactly is the purpose/ point?
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gamzehyaavor




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 9:23 am
nanny24/7 wrote:
Thanks. Well yeah I never thought it should be diagnostic either absent any symptoms.
But the fact is they use test results as a deciding factor on quarantines and lockdown measures and tracking supposed percentages of the virus in the population. So if my theory is true, then the moment vaccines are mass administered the number of positive cases will skyrocket.
I suppose there is no way to know for sure until that actually plays itself out.

I have nothing scientific to back this up- but my theory is that the protein spike will be in the blood & not in the mucus.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 9:25 am
Pcr test looks for a fragment of viral dna specific to that virus. The vaccine won’t contain any viral dna.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 10:14 am
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Pcr test looks for a fragment of viral dna specific to that virus. The vaccine won’t contain any viral dna.

OK I am no scientist but DNA fragments are proteins.
And the vaccines are supposed to immitate those proteins.
Also the PCR technology used is a far cry from the standard old fashioned strept culture or UTU culture where the speciment is let to naturally sit and then determine if that harmful pathogen grew. With the multiplication technology of PCR there is no certain guarantee that the protein strands found indeed originated from the covid 19 coronavirus. There is the chance other similar harmless viruses show up in the results, especially being the quantity ratio they set for how much is considered positive or negative is arbitrary and varies from lab to lab or even the same labs can choose to change ratio protocol from time to time.
Also the new vaccines utilizing mRNA technology will essentially invade the human cells, force the DNA of those cells to split and then have the vaccine particles bind to the DNA so there is a newly formed DNA sequence in those cells which triggers the large production of the protein spikes which is thought to trigger similar immune response as it would in a real covid 19 infection.
That sounds a lot more fuzzy and makes the distinction between vaccine protein and viral protein less clear. It indicates that the vaccine could very well mimic viral DNA.
Viruses don't truly have their own autonomic DNA to begin with.
They only live and multiply by binding to human cells. Thus, when testing someone for Covid, there is no way they examine viral DNA exclusive and separate from human DNA. It's the combination of both binded together and its presentation that's examined.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Nov 19 2020, 10:15 am
gamzehyaavor wrote:
I have nothing scientific to back this up- but my theory is that the protein spike will be in the blood & not in the mucus.

Interesting theory.
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mommy163




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 5:00 am
All they have to do to differentiate between the vaccine and the actual virus is for the PCR test to detect a DNA sequence other than the spike protein. I believe they target the N protein for that.
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 6:10 am
I don’t know much about it. I understand that it is great for detailed research. It can test for very minute amount ps of whatever is being tested for. It doesn’t tell us how recent the particles of corona are nor how much "life" they have in them.
Don’t argue my points since I may be wrong. This is the gist in my uneducated understanding.
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amother




Mauve
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 6:34 am
1) I assume if people have been recently vaccinated they’ll have a record of it, I don’t see why those people would then have any reason to get tested.

2) It’s like people who have received the TB vaccine react to the typical PPD test for TB, that test isn’t used for people who’ve been vaccinated.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 7:26 am
Thank you mommy163. That makes sense!
Got it lymnok. Not gonna argue!
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:01 am
The protein spike in the vaccine doesn't cause the spike to replicate but rather induce an immune response. It won't be detectable in your mucus or body. It's not a live vaccine where the virus replicates instead your body sees the vaccine spike and makes antibodies against other spikes...
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:51 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
1) I assume if people have been recently vaccinated they’ll have a record of it, I don’t see why those people would then have any reason to get tested.

2) It’s like people who have received the TB vaccine react to the typical PPD test for TB, that test isn’t used for people who’ve been vaccinated.


We know that mask mandates and social distancing guidelines might stay in effect regardless if a vaccine becomes in use.
I assumed mandatory testing would too weather government mandated or employer mandated, or mandated only for healthcare workers. It would make sense to exempt those who took the vaccine but some of how guidelines were enforced until now didn't make sense so I hope you're right about that.
Do you know that to be true that people who receive TB vaccine react to PPD test for TB? That would actually prove my point of such a possibility
Thanks for responding.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 8:54 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
The protein spike in the vaccine doesn't cause the spike to replicate but rather induce an immune response. It won't be detectable in your mucus or body. It's not a live vaccine where the virus replicates instead your body sees the vaccine spike and makes antibodies against other spikes...

This makes sense.
But for some reason when I tried researching how mRNA technology vaccines work that's not the impression I got at all. Although I honestly don't understand how it works as it sounds so complicated.
Are you referring to vaccines that don't use mRNA technology?
Or do you have better knowledge of mRNA that you can enlighten me?
I would love to understand more about it.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:12 am
nanny24/7 wrote:
This makes sense.
But for some reason when I tried researching how mRNA technology vaccines work that's not the impression I got at all. Although I honestly don't understand how it works as it sounds so complicated.
Are you referring to vaccines that don't use mRNA technology?
Or do you have better knowledge of mRNA that you can enlighten me?
I would love to understand more about it.


That is for both vaccines with mRNA technology and non mRNA technology. mRNA technology does not introduce the virus or its spike into your cell and teach it to reproduce. The idea is to teach the body to recognize the spike so it will mount an immune response against the actual virus. Here is a summary:

wrote:
But an mRNA vaccine is different, because rather than having the viral protein injected, a person receives genetic material – mRNA – that encodes the viral protein. When these genetic instructions are injected into the upper arm, the muscle cells translate them to make the viral protein directly in the body.

This approach mimics what the SARS-CoV-2 does in nature – but the vaccine mRNA codes only for the critical fragment of the viral protein. This gives the immune system a preview of what the real virus looks like without causing disease. This preview gives the immune system time to design powerful antibodies that can neutralize the real virus if the individual is ever infected.
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nanny24/7




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:34 am
Thank you for this added explanation!
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amother




Mauve
 

Post  Fri, Nov 20 2020, 9:44 am
nanny24/7 wrote:
We know that mask mandates and social distancing guidelines might stay in effect regardless if a vaccine becomes in use.
I assumed mandatory testing would too weather government mandated or employer mandated, or mandated only for healthcare workers. It would make sense to exempt those who took the vaccine but some of how guidelines were enforced until now didn't make sense so I hope you're right about that.
Do you know that to be true that people who receive TB vaccine react to PPD test for TB? That would actually prove my point of such a possibility
Thanks for responding.


https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/t.....d.htm

I know there’s definitely a category of people who cannot get annual PPD tests (as required of healthcare workers) and they need to submit a chest X-ray instead. Annoying and excessive, sure, but prior vaccination causing false positives isn’t unheard of, that’s all I’m saying. And “they” have a way of dealing with it.
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