Eating in public on fast days

yiddishmom

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:32 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

I think it’s an issue with the education in those chassidish communities where “women don’t fast.” It’s like the day doesn’t exist for them on the calendar. They’re not even aware that it’s a fast day or what the significance of the date is.

Do they say Avinu malkeinu?

False assumption.

They know very well what day it is and what it means.

amother

Slateblue

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:33 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

This is such a horrible narrow minded thing to say.
We're not naive or uneducated.
OF COURSE we get an education on these fast days! Of course we learn about it in school. Of course the day exists for us. Of course we know it's a fast day and the significance of it!!!! But l'halacha women don't have to fast these days and it's something chassidim are meikil on. Bobov women don't fast tisha ba'av either, of course they know what tisha ba'av is. Different minhagim for different people, respect without putting down or bashing!

amother

Orange

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:35 pm

Dd goes to a high school with a small percentage of girls who come from chassidish or chassidish-lite families. She tells me that these girls don't fast on the minor days, and eat and drink in class as is usually allowed. There is a lot of resentment, where there wouldn't be if there was a medical reason, etc. Because the girls treat the day like any day when eating is fine, and the rest of their classmates have to watch them, and also experience what they perceive as a flippant attitude toward the day.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:38 pm

I do agree there should be a certain feeling and awareness attached to the day. For yourself. Definitely for chinuch reasons, to model for your children.
If for whatever reason you aren't fasting, it really isn't the time to be indulging in treats or casual snacking (that isn't needed for health reasons).

amother

Slateblue

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:43 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

This has to do with the chinuch of the home and not with being chassidish.
Most parents teach their kids that we don't purposely eat and drink in front of people that fast if possible. But some teens are insensitive to others and try to seek attention in negative ways.
In camp on shiva aser b'tamuz, they served regular meals and the girls that did fast, just didn't go to the dining room.

amother

Scarlet

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:43 pm

I taught in a chassidish high school. The first year I taught there I wasn’t really aware of the whole “women don’t fast” thing. I mentioned something in class about the day being a taanis and the girls seemed surprised, like they never heard of it before.

But I’m glad to hear that my experience isn’t representative of chassidish women as a whole.

amother

Orange

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:51 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

That's good to hear. Her understanding is that they come from schools and/or a neighborhood where it never occurred to them not to because everyone does, so they don't really think about it. And nobody specifically asks them not to. Their whole approach to the day is very confusing to dd and the other girls.

amother

Slateblue

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:55 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

This really isn't the typical for chassidish schools. Usually the girls learn about the day and there are always a couple of fasters in every grade. 6th grade and up don't usually have schools on fast days because some girls do fast.

soap suds

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 6:57 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Eating and drinking as usal when it's not your minhag to fast, doesn't mean they have a flippant attitude. Eating in front of others who are fasting is insensitive and shouldn't be done.

amother

Orange

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 7:02 pm

soap suds wrote:

Eating and drinking as usal when it's not your minhag to fast, doesn't mean they have a flippant attitude. Eating in front of others who are fasting is insensitive and shouldn't be done.

That's where I get confused, and why I started a spin off. I always assumed that the minhag of women not fasting puts them in a category like pregnant and nursing, where you eat because you need to. So while you might still eat in public, you would do so differently- no treats, not dragged out and eating for pleasure, etc. But I don't really know.

amother

Gold

Sat, Dec 26 2020, 11:29 pm

I'm nursing so don't do minor fasts. Honestly, if I'm not fasting I tend to forget it's a fast day, so that's why I eat publicly 😲

One Yom Kippur I was still in the hospital postpartum so of course I ate in the maternity dining room. Twice on YK I fasted while drinking shiurim, and I did drink them privately -- didn't want anyone to see.

Raisin

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 4:38 am

I agree it's distasteful to post pictures of your morning coffee or meet up for lunch with friends. I don't think you need to hide the fact that you are not fasting, unless you are 3 weeks pregnant and don't want people to know. Also, sometimes there is no way of eating privately. Once we were travelling on a fast day and needed to eat in a restaurant...I was nursing and all the kids were little. Only my husband didn't eat.

Having said that I very much disagree with the concept of healthy women not fasting for no reason. If you never fast, how are even aware of the day?

rosezee

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 5:30 am

MYOB maybe that milkshake was the first food she ate in two days.
Maybe having a milkshake in public is beyond brave for her recovery.
Maybe that milkshake was her sanity in a home of needy children touching her every time she ate.

Shame on all of you.

nchr

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 5:59 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

This is completely untrue. Very many high school girls fast in these communities btw. Children have no school or half day depending on the fast. Children learn about fast days. There are also very many women who do fast Asara B'Teves even if not any others (besides Tisha B'Av and Yom Kippur) so people know about it.

funkyfrummom

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 8:38 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Bobover women don't fast on Tisha b'av? At all?

Zeleze

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 8:51 am

Here in Israel, the Rabonim are very cool about fasting, and many women just don't fast normal fasting days.

So a man would be out of the order in public, but a women I can't imagine that it would look off.

amother

Blonde

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 8:52 am

I'm a giyores (and that's why I'm posting anon for my privacy).

At my conversion, at the mikveh (IN the mikveh), I was asked questions up until the very moment of immersion. One of those was "Will you observe all the fast days, minor fast days included?" another question was " What is the next day we fast?" (which happened to be asara b'teves). The stream of questions would alternate from a question of commitment, to a question of knowledge of halacha, back and forth. It is (understandably) excruciatingly hard to come up with the answer to even "What is your name?" when you are unclothed, being questioned by rabbis, in the mikveh (at the most important moment of your life). My take-away was that it spoke of the importance of the observance of fast days, even for women.

Have I ever not fasted? Yes, when pregnant. Yes, sometimes due to my own struggles. I would not even think of eating publicly. Even inside my own home, I don't eat in front of anyone who is fasting. It is always very private. Even for someone who has permission to not fast, or when there is a community custom that women do not fast, Klal Yisroel IS fasting. That is why to me it seems grossly inappropriate to do it in public.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 9:02 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I know plenty of women don’t fast - not minhag, pregnant, kids, nursing, headache, busy, etc
But I always understood you don’t eat special foods -my kids don’t eat cake or nosh - and it should be in private. It’s still a day of mourning even if you eat. And if you need to drink while shopping you’d quietly pull out a water bottle.

One women posted how she felt bad not being able to fast. I always though that was the attitude.

But lately I’m seeing women eating publicly all over.
Posting their morning coffee
Posting their lunch
Walking around the grocery with a milkshake or snack.

It just rubbed me the wrong way. Anyone feel the same or am I just not DLKZ enough

To be dlkz DH didn't know it was a fast day and ate in the airport next to a bunch of frum Jews davening, he only realized later.
I hope they were dlkz.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Dec 27 2020, 9:08 am

rosezee wrote:

Why shame? This is a valid discussion.