I just feel awful. My entire hair showing out

LovesHashem

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 11:45 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

This is a good question. If my Rav is stricter do I get an aveirah if I go against his psak, since there are many other more lenient Rabbonim?

There's a difference between chumrah and halacha. Going beyond a chiyuv, if you consistently do it definitely binds you in some way. But if you make a mistake than I don't think you would get an aveirah for it.

Kinda like how halachically in Taharas Hamishpacha there's lots of stuff that chazal added to be a geder, and if you always do that than you should continue to do so. But if you make a mistake (like missing a bedika if it's not day 1 or 7) in some thing like that most Rabbanim will hold its fine and you don't need to start over counting.

Do I make sense?

I'm not telling OP she can and should start uncovering in front of her kids. I'm just saying that's beyond the letter of the law and if it was a mistake or something it's 100 percent not an aveirah.

imaima

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 12:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My teen son comes into my bedroom sometimes in the morning before he leaves to yashiva if he needs something from me, or is looking for something. Usually he knocks on my door, but I have to teach him that in the mornings he should do the same which I will bring up later to him . So today when he came into my room my entire hair was exposed to him and my snood was all down . I still feel horrible. I'm not comfortable my teen son should see my entire hair showing. Did anyone ever had such an incident? Or do you even care if your big son saw you like that? I do care and it bothers me that this happened.
From now on my door will have to be locked in the morning as well. Just my big boys wake up before me since they leave early, and sometimes it will come up that they need something. But I definitely need to make clear that knocking on the door has to be . I just wonder if I was oiver on this that my hair was all shown and he saw me like this. I know it depends on the culture which your used to . For us if most of hair showing is not acceptable. I dont think my son gave much thought to it , but I feel it was a certain exposure which I wouldn't want him to see. He does see hairs from my sides sticking out I assume during the day but it's still very different than see an entire pony tail. I'm wondering how wrong it is (were heimish) For me it's very uncomfortable. I dont think their is much I can do about it, just to be careful from now on to not leave my door unlocked . I would be happy if someone makes me feel that it wasnt end of the world. And should I call a ruv to discuss this or it's not relevant?

Bottom line is, you felt uncomfortable and violated.
Yes it happens. Kids should be trained not to do that early on, before they are teenagers. It was your job to train him/them though.

Also, they should prepare in the evening. I would refuse to be available in the morning if it could be solved in the evening. And if they still need something then they should wait outside the door.

amother

Navy

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 12:27 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I totally understand you; it is embarassing.
After you wake up, before you get out of bed, can you make sure your snood is properly on your head? Until you get used to doing it, perhaps write a reminder on a small sticky-note only for you to see, and stick it on your bed/very near your bed, so you see it every morning.
Also, perhaps the snood's elastic is loose and thus it slips?
May Hashem Bentsch you with much bracha v'hatzlacha.

chanchy123

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 1:09 pm

It is not assur for your son to see your hair in any way, but I can understand why you’d feel uncomfortable. It is important to teach your children to knock before they enter a room with a shut door, any room. You deserve your privacy. Your son is old enough to understand the concept of privacy, you don’t have to lock yourself in your room, this is a good mida for your children to have. If you have small children who just randomly open shut doors, by all means, lock your door when you need privacy.

BadTichelDay

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 2:24 pm

OP, don't know if it makes you feel better, we've got a bush that is a bit overgrown in our front garden. One time I walked through under a branch and - whoops! My headscarf got caught on the branch and left my head. Completely. I stood there bareheaded and very visible from the street. And the neighbors were in their garden, too. In broad daylight. Worse, the scarf was stuck between the thorns on the bush and didn't come off!! I had nothing to put on my head. I just clasped my hands over my hair and ran as fast as I could back into the house.
Of course that was very embarassing.
But it was a complete accident and therefore I don't feel guilty. An accident is not the same as an aveira.
However, now alert to the risk, I did cut the lower branches off the bush to prevent it from happening again.

amother

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 2:49 pm

BadTichelDay wrote:

I'm so sorry to hear this . Sometimes we aren't in control, things just happen .

Why I feel scared of it being usser is because I grew up in a very sheltered environment. I remember I was told a few times as a kalla how usser it is should any bit of hair be shown. It can lead to danger , or if I want erlich kids the hair must be hidden... Until I opened my eyes more and saw a bigger world where I see people all the time even walking on the street with hair shown so I always questioned why am I different, a yid is a yid . Why are most allowed and for some it should be restricted, and hair was a very big Nesoin for me to shave , until my husband was ok that I let it grow in . When I discussed this with my rav he oky'd me with the hair part but again warned me never to walk around with visible hair . So this is what I was told all the time . So the fact that my son saw me like this wasnt the embarrassment part as much as me being petrified that nothing happens to me since my son saw me this way . Yes. I have to admit it's a bit traumatic for me . Today I live a different style of life than how I grew up . I'm still frum but more open with things and not at all living a life where I feel chocked up. (And yes I'm coming from chassidic background, but my kids are not in chassidish schools ) and I will admit that I'm confused when it comes to these things . I would love to find our style rav that would be able to clarify me on this topic.

amother

Rose

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:03 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Can you provide some sources? I'd like to see them?

I'm not opening sefarim but a quick google search shows me this:

Quote:

There are many poskim who say that in a yard or even in the privacy of one’s home, a woman is obligated to cover her hair in front of her family members, including her children. These are the poskim who hold this way: the Bach, based on the Tur and the Rambam, the Bais Shmuel, the Smag and the Chasam Sofer, based on the Zohar. Just as the Zohar holds that one is not allowed to expose any hairs, it holds that one has to cover hair even in the privacy of one’s home. It seems that way from the Mishna Brurah as well. This is not just a midos chassidus, a special act of piety. According to these opinions, it would be an obligation.

The Bach, on Shulchan Aruch says that this was always the custom in klal Yisroel for thousands of years. Married women covered their hair in the presence of family members, in the presence of their children and certainly in the presence of other relatives, like brothers and even their fathers.

https://tznius.tips/crowning-g......html

Quote:

Furthermore, everyone agrees that according to the Zohar[6] it is a complete prohibition to reveal any hair of the head,

https://shulchanaruchharav.com.....hair/

LovesHashem

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:15 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/married-woman-covering-all-her-hair/

Everyone who says it's assur it's seems to be based on the Zohar. Now just because the zohar says something doesn't mean it's halacha. I believe the zohar says a singles girls hair needs to be braided as well.

I'm also going to quote from this same site.

Quote:

Hence, there is a major argument among poskim about whether a womanis obligated to cover her hair in her own home, the way she is obligated to cover her hair in public. However, there is a difference. In public, it’s a das Moshe, it’s a biblical commandment. If a woman would be obligated to cover her hair in private, it would only be a das Yehudis, of rabbinic authority, a lower level of authority. Each woman has to know the spiritual level she is on, and consult with a rav as to how she should act.

Quote:

Rashi and Tosfos in Kesuvos both hold that mi ikar hadin-according to the strict letter of the law-a woman is not obligated to cover her hair in private, in her own home or even in her backyard, where there are no other men around. If, however, other men are visiting, she would be obligated.

According to these opinions to kee it covered in front of your kids, it seems no one should see your hair. Not your girls, not at an all women's pool, no one else ever. It seems you would aslo have an obligation to cover even if home alone through this source.

This website is also a more extreme source. They quote Rabbi Falk in some articles which is known to be more machmir and extreme even in yeshivish circles.

BadTichelDay

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

When I discussed this with my rav he oky'd me with the hair part but again warned me never to walk around with visible hair . So this is what I was told all the time .

So the fact that my son saw me like this wasnt the embarrassment part as much as me being petrified that nothing happens to me since my son saw me this way .

Well, you were not walking around with hair showing. You were inside your bedroom. And it was by accident that he saw the hair. It seems to me that the rav and also the kallah teacher meant that you have to be very makpid to not show any hair deliberately or by neglect. Again, accidents are a different category.
I mean, we are all very careful not to mix meat and milk. But occasionally things will drop into something or touch by accident. As long as one didn't do it deliberately or cook in a very neglectful way that made it likely to happen, there is no reason to feel bad about it. Sometimes things go wrong. As long as we did our part in a reasonable manner, it is not something to tear oneself up about.
Also for your son it was an accident - he did not intend or plan to see it.
If someone has such a "mitzvah-accident" and feels sorry about it and reasonably tries to prevent it from happening again, I don't think bad things or punishments, c"v, will come from it. Even willful real aveirot can be forgiven after teshuva. How much more so an unintended mistake in a matter that is considered a chumrah by many.

amother

Rose

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:31 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

The thing is that the Zohar heavily influences the opinions of chassidishe Rabbonim. As basic halacha. Not as hashkafa or a chumrah.
This is how I was brought up and what I do. It wouldn't occur to me to uncover at home alone.

OP sorry to derail from your main question but I thought it was important that people know that covering in front of children is not considered an extra or a chumrah for many frum women out there.

Chickensoupprof

Mon, Dec 28 2020, 3:57 pm

In my experience I see that my chabad friends are way more makpid indeed with never showing hair even to their children and/or other women. While my yeshivishe friends (From frum kollel wives to rwmo) are way easy going with showing hair I’ve basically seen most of all of them with their own hair. Definitely a chassidish think I read this and I basically feel I’m def less chabad now and getting more yeshivish by day 😂