Why would my A B grades DD do so bad in Judaics

amother

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 1:05 am

Trying to help my older elementary DD who is struggling with Judaics. I know all kids have strengths and weaknesses. She does really well with spelling struggles somewhat with math and is just really bombing all her Judaic subjects. She has ADHD for sure but why would it affect her Judaic classes more? She has a very hard time with memorization of shoreshes, got an incomplete in Ivrit which I think also has to do with memorization. It doesn’t seem to be a dislike of the subjects. She likes learning chumash she just isn’t doing well. It breaks my heart because she is very into grades. We are trying to help her and also not make it a big deal because we know she is trying but man she is really struggling. We opted to not mention her report card and hope she doesn’t ask this last semester. Any ideas? Will medicine help.

amother

Aqua

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 2:55 am

Without wanted to judge unfavourably, it may be a simple case of your DD not being taught in a way that works for her in those subjects. It’s possible the teaching is a different style/standard to her general studies lessons.

School can be really hard for some kids and the emphasis on ‘pass/fail’ is too much to put on some kids.

I hope your DD can take pride of the effort she’s put into all her studies and that the staff will make it their responsibility to help her achieve better academically going forward.

salt

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 3:38 am

My DD is Israeli and doesn't do well in Chumash and Navi, but does well in Math, English, dikduk, everything else really.
Her teacher even said to me "I don't understand how she gets good grades in reading comprehension, but not in Chumash or Navi" - I told the teacher, it's a completely different language. Doesn't matter how many books you read, Tanach is a different language and completely different style. And that's even a Hebrew speaker.
More so if it's a foreign/second language.

I'm a great believer in private lessons for kids struggling in certain subjects - of course only if you have the means, but a good teacher one-on-one can give a big push and give the student more confidence.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 4:25 am

For a kid who struggles to pay attention, listening and absorbing in a second language is harder. She could space out in social studies, but still be listening enough to absorb the information with half an ear if she’s a bright child. However, something in a foreign language you can’t just absorb with half an ear, you need to be focused on translating to understand to absorb, so without devoted attention, it’s not being absorbed.

I’ve also found that with Hebrew (and to a smaller but similar way math) in upper elementary the kids who have small gaps in their knowledge begin to fall behind because the teachers expect the kids to have a certain foundation to work from, and kids with any gaps in it can’t find those pieces to pull together.

amother

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 6:34 am

Op here, thanks everyone who has chimes in so far. I don’t blame the teachers because besides her teacher this year having an outstanding reputation and going out of her way to help it’s been like this the past few years with various teachers. Ima who says she has this issue I look forward to hearing from you!

Raisin

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 6:43 am

I always struggled in Judaic subjects. Probably a combination of reasons.

1. teachers were mostly young fresh out of seminary girls.
2. There are not a lot of great teaching resources for chumash etc unlike other subjects like maths.
3. My language skils are not great. I pick up languages very slowly.
4. I was used to understanding things quickly...trying to decipher a page of Rashi was boring when I was able to pick up a book in english and read all sorts of fascinating things in a matter of minutes.

Anyway, the good news is that there is so much torah in english nowadays. It's nice to read chumash in the original but not essential to be a frum, thinking Jew.

imasinger

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 6:47 am

Practical tip -- You can help her put rote memorization facts (like shorashim) to a tune, and sing them.

Sounds like more observation would be a good idea. What is going on differently in the classroom? How is it affecting her?

mommy3b2c

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 7:42 am

I have adhd and I did amazing in all English subjects and poorly in Hebrew subjects starting in about fifth grade. For me it was because I didn’t pay attention to a word the teacher was saying. I’m very smart though, so it didn’t matter if I paid attention in history and English. I picked up all the information without listening. But I don’t speak Hebrew. How could I understand a language I don’t know when I wasn’t even listening? In 11th and 12th grade I figured out a method to force myself to listen and then I got straight A’s in Chumash and Navi too.

amother

Copper

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 8:58 am

The distinctions between the secular subjects tend to be greater. You'll have kids that do great in math and science, but poorly in social studies and average in literature, or any combination of the above.

In Judaic studies, it's more common to be all or nothing.

I think that's because of the great reliance on Hebrew language and memorization, instead of making the subjects more distinct and not using Tanach as a Hebrew textbook.

The subjects are SUPPOSED TO be something like:
Chumash - finding the lessons Hashem is teaching us through the Torah
Nach - seeing how nevuos are fulfilled, how the events are there for us to do teshuva
Halacha - learning how practically to do what Hashem wants, sometimes underlying reasons and connections
Ivrit / Lashon Kodesh - learning to read, write, understand and speak Hebrew
Dikduk - proper grammar, spelling, formatting in the above
Tefillah - understanding the structure and messages of the davening
Historia - developing a clarity in the times of our Chachomim and how this impacts us today

etc. Obviously some kids would do better in different subjects, but it wouldn't all end up in the lump of memorization-in-a-foreign-language that it is today.

amother

Amber

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:16 am

I've seen students without any learning disabilities simply struggle with limudei kodesh. It can be for a variety of reasons.

1. They are not fluent reading in Hebrew. Though a lot of practice is done in the younger grades, for various reasons, the reading fluency slips through the cracks. Sometimes it's because the homework wasn't done with them; sometimes it's because the school missed the issue and didn't address it. Having difficulty reading Hebrew means that you're doing double the work when you learn-first to read, then to understand. (My DH and all of his siblings have some deficiencies in this area.)

2. It's a different language. Some people more naturally pick up languages than others. My friend who went to BJJ had to work significantly harder for Hebrew subjects because of the language issue.

3. Some people's brains don't do well with memorization. Secular subjects are often much more comprehension-based and don't require as much memorization. The way limudei kodesh are tested relies almost exclusively on rote memorization. That doesn't work well for many people. My mother and sister, both valedictorians, had to work much harder for Hebrew subjects than English because they didn't like to memorize.

4. Some people just find limudei kodesh repetitive and boring, resulting in a lack of motivation.

With ADHD, it can be any or all of the above.

Chayalle

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:21 am

one of my DD's struggled with Hebrew Language, and her principal told her that the Hebrew language is very different from English, and there's a processing disorder associated with learning Hebrew that makes it more difficult for students.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 10:37 am

I also had a similar issue. Did really well in secular subjects, but Judaic subjects, especially Chumash, were consistently challenging for me. I don’t know that I even had ADHD, if I did I was able to manage without it being detected as a real problem (I would cram before tests with the help of friends and do ok). I chalk it up to 1) different language 2) focus on memorization 3) lack of structure in the way the subject was taught, more so than in secular subjects for some reason and 4) I didn’t take notes - no idea why, but it wasn’t standard in the Judaic subjects, and I always learned and retained things better when I wrote things down. Looking back I obviously should have taken notes but I just did what everyone else did at the time.
When I had private tutoring - all I was doing was actually paying attention in those one-on-one sessions - I did really well.

amother

Tan

Tue, Dec 29 2020, 11:27 am

The answer is actually quite simple, while English subjects usually have a book, worksheets and everything is quite straightforward, judaic studies is not. It's intertwined with midrashim and comentaries and often the teachers talk a lot and the children are supposed to be copying while they are talking. If someone has ADHD it is much harder to do this and it's even harder to remember a comment that was said in class than looking at a book like she can do for English. I see this a lot with my kids, the teachers quote Rashi or another commentary, don't write it on the board and then suddenly it shows up on a test.