Ladies name child simcha invitation

amother

Linen

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 6:39 am

Different circles, I guess, but I would be appalled to not have my name included on an invitation, and not just 'somewhere' as Chayalle said but in the exact same space as my husband's name is included.

Since when is a woman's name immodest? Since when is reminding everyone that a mother exists alongside a father immodest?

Isn't it enough that many women give up their original family name for their husband's last name? Do we have to erase them entirely?

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 6:42 am

Some of the invitations I see say R Shmuel Stein vreuso (literally Shmuel Stein and his wife). Some say R Shmuel Stein ubnei baiso or mishpachto.
I told my husband that I'm not part of "the household". A member of the family wasn't up with this kid every night for a year with colic, never sat holding a burning preschooler while they vomited all over their nightgown, never got annoying phone calls from the Rebbi or principal, never drove carpools all over the city to accommodate a chavrusa. So this mythical reuso or bnai bayis was not going to get written down to invite people to the bar mitzvah, and iyh the wedding.
However, if he feels that strongly about reuso, mishpachto, or bnai bayis (he doesn't really), feel free to find and hire one to raise the kids, and then we'll talk.😃😃🤣

amother

Bronze

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 6:43 am

Can someone explain what type of guy reads a female name like Chani and goes off to masterb@te to that?

Do your children's daughters never mention the names of their friends? Do they call their friends Mr. X's daughter age y?

dancingqueen

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 6:51 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Can someone actually explain why this is happening. I’m not familiar with this practice and I’m kinda horrified.

LovesHashem

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 6:59 am

dancingqueen wrote:

Can someone actually explain why this is happening. I’m not familiar with this practice and I’m kinda horrified.

MY DH says writing Mrs and Mrs man's name is how you write a formal invitation. My not religious grandmother 100% agrees.

I can understand that logic.

I don't understand doing this for tzniyus or a society norm. It's an old fashioned formal way of writing invitations and letters.

Crookshanks

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:01 am

LovesHashem wrote:

\
This. If it bothers you then do whatever you want. But don't complain about society doing it we didn't come up with this.

Ema of 5

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:03 am

Crookshanks wrote:

If the guy does it himself I'd just think it's a sensitivity towards his wife. Doesn't seem awkard at all to me. I'm from Lakewood for reference Smile

I’m not, and he’s not. I didn’t even know the woman’s name until we got the invitation to the wedding, because I only saw it once, on the engagement invitation. They were in two separate cities while they were engaged, so we didn’t meet her, and he never said her name.

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:04 am

dancingqueen wrote:

Can someone actually explain why this is happening. I’m not familiar with this practice and I’m kinda horrified.

It's the equivalent of Mr and Mrs John Smith invite you, just instead it's Rabbi and Mrs Yosef Friedman.
In the MO world, do you get invited as Mr and Mrs Avrohom Friedman or Mr and Mrs Avrohom and Esther Friedman?
In my world, all invitations are the former.
For some reason, the English is fine, yet the Hebrew reuso or bnai bayis ticks me off.

Chayalle

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:07 am

keym wrote:

Agree. I think we would do the formal English, and have my name by the Hebrew. I'm not his house (I hope not. I have put on a few lbs. since he married me, but....)

(My father says the Gemarrah that talks about R' Yosi that says he called his wife his house....also says that R' Yosi did not have Shalom Bayis.)

amother

Linen

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:08 am

Crookshanks wrote:

\
This. If it bothers you then do whatever you want. But don't complain about society doing it we didn't come up with this.

Which society? We are no longer in 19th century England, where this may have been done. We are no longer in an era where women were mere chattel, and could not even open their own bank account or vote.

I cannot fathom why a person would want to write an invitation that refers to a woman in the same derogatory way she was referred to in some circles two hundred years ago.

Personally, the only invites I have received like this are from haredi families. My secular and non-Jewish friends (some of who are in the upper echelons of society) have never sent me an invitation that says Mr. and Mrs. John Smith. (In fact most of the women there don't even change their last name anymore!)

Crookshanks

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:10 am

I just checked my own invitation for reference. In English, it says Rabbi and Mrs. John Smith, and on the Hebrew side, the names are on the bottom of the invitation, (under horei hachasan and horei hakallah) and say both parent's names, John and Jane Smith. Both my parents and in laws are more yeshivish than the next...Learning and in chinuch in Lakewood.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:10 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Just by the way, some of us haredi people consider ourselves the upper echelons of society too.

What an offensive post.

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:11 am

Chayalle wrote:

To be honest, I've never seen baiso just bnai baiso- members of the household.
To me, that implies a large extended family group living compound style, and they're all jointly inviting.

Crookshanks

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:11 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Like I said, if it personally bothers you, don't do it. As I just said, my own parents and in laws have both names on the invitation, and no one thought twice about it. I didn't even remember what was done on my invitation because it's literally not a big deal.

Chayalle

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:12 am

keym wrote:

To be honest, I've never seen baiso just bnai baiso- members of the household.
To me, that implies a large extended family group living compound style, and they're all jointly inviting.

I've never seen it either....it sounds weird. I have seen rayaso, and while it's not as weird (maybe because I've seen it many times) I see no good reason for it.

LovesHashem

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:13 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

When we wrote thank you cards to all my grandmothers friends who aren't religious from our wedding we wrote it the old fashioned formal way.

I don't know. All the non religious folk I know, all my extended family write it this way. I do have extended family who are same sx relationships so I wonder who gets to choose whose name is on there. Maybe I'll ask next time I speak to them. LOL

keym

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:15 am

Chayalle wrote:

I've never seen it either....it sounds weird. I have seen rayaso, and while it's not as weird (maybe because I've seen it many times) I see no good reason for it.

Bnai baiso is usually written as a beis, beis.

Crookshanks

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:17 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I do have extended family who are same sx relationships so I wonder who gets to choose whose name is on there. Maybe I'll ask next time I speak to them. LOL

amother

Linen

Wed, Jan 13 2021, 7:17 am

keym wrote:

I guess I run in more modern circles. No one in my circles would dream of addressing me as Mr. and Mrs. Avrohom Friedman. In fact, many women in my circles are Ms. and not Mrs, and many have not changed their last name to their husband's, or have combined both names.

I would be shocked if anyone addressed me as Mrs. Husband Husband.