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External vs whats inside--mishloach manos
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:03 am
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
Because we don’t need to have people driving themselves crazy because of the competition. That’s what being frum is all about it’s about tznius. Even though you are very creative and have time and money and a good baker and have a lot of friends you only do a little. Not to show off and pressure and embarrass other people. We are supposed to be better that the secular world. I don’t say don’t do anything just be modest in order to protect your fellow Jew. The rabbi should make a rule. Like the one for weddings that some do.

Again, people who have a hard time with peer pressure should work on themselves. Not force takanos down on everyone else. You cannot and should not try to change the world because you need to be like everyone else. Please try to fargin other people's wealth, creativity and themes.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:20 am
The obligation is to SEND MM, not to consume them. You have fulfilled your obligation even if the recipient regifts, discards, sells or otherwise gets rid of your gift without eating it. How could the obligation be on the recipient to consume it? Some people get MM from literally hundreds of people.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:26 am
Crookshanks wrote:
Again, people who have a hard time with peer pressure should work on themselves. Not force takanos down on everyone else. You cannot and should not try to change the world because you need to be like everyone else. Please try to fargin other people's wealth, creativity and themes.

Ok. So people who have hard time feeding their children just deal with it. There is no chessed and modesty is our religion. Just go full force and flaunt your assets. What about the inyan of being modest and not embarrassing your neighbors and helping out. I know that it was addressed that weddings shouldn’t be a show off event. Everything should be modest. But nvm. Just do your thing. I don’t really care because it doesn’t bother me. I’m just annoyed. I think it’s is not the spirit of the tora.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:33 am
Chessed and modesty is for people who are wealthy/talented/creative to work on. It's not for you to tell them to work on it. You need to work on farginning people with more than you, and they need to work on doing things quietly. It's not on you to tell other people what part of yiddishkeit they should be working on at the moment.
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Shabbosiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:42 am
If you are creative, a good baker, etc., please do not stifle yourself because someone might feel pressure. That's a little much. I can't believe that you are routinely expected to stifle your strengths within the service of Hashem in case someone gets jealous (meaning not just in a specific situation. )
The concept of rabbanim stepping in is a good one, and has it's place when it's a community wide issue that's serious. For example, specific communities put limits on weddings. That was because MAJORITY of the community was making weddings they could not afford, or at least not afford for multiple children. When the standard is to take out large loans or ask for tzedakah, something needs to be done.
However, there is a concept that rich people should live within their means. A rich person is told to eat expensive foods. I think the idea was, if he eats sardines during the week with bread and water, what's he going to give to the poor? If he eats chicken and meat, he can give the poor bread and sardines.

Basically, I think I'm saying that I think rabbanim are not supposed to make daily decisions for the community as a whole. If you feel you should tone down your miahloach manos, that's fine. If there is a community-wide problem such as people not giving tzedakah because they spent too much on mm, I think rabbanim would step in. I can see a rav talking to his kehilla about this topic, or writing an article, as food for thought. I don't think we are at the point, though, where takanos are warranted.
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amother




Natural
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:43 am
Mishloach manos are meant to be food that you will eat at your seuda. Even if we cannot actually all sit together, we can have a sort of community wide pot luck. Purim is a day to trust the kashrus of your friends, and to give real gifts of food, not four pretzels and six jelly beans. (Of course, little kids might really want to send this, and for them, it's fine.) It's definitely better to send only a few packages, but have them be substantial.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:45 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Mishloach manos are meant to be food that you will eat at your seuda. Even if we cannot actually all sit together, we can have a sort of community wide pot luck. Purim is a day to trust the kashrus of your friends, and to give real gifts of food, not four pretzels and six jelly beans. (Of course, little kids might really want to send this, and for them, it's fine.) It's definitely better to send only a few packages, but have them be substantial.

Not everyone can afford to send real food. Whether it's money or time or energy or fridge space, candy is what works for some people.
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SuperWify




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:48 am
I try to give a finger food or real food or a baked good that can e eaten at the seuda but I don’t judge those that can’t- I love getting creative mm and seeing how it ties to a theme. It’s fun!
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amother




Natural
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:50 am
Crookshanks wrote:
Not everyone can afford to send real food. Whether it's money or time or energy or fridge space, candy is what works for some people.


You don't have to send an entire meal. Bake or buy a loaf cake and add an orange or apple. Voila, real food. Send one or two of these, and you're done.

Obviously, if the budget is too tight for that it's too tight. And if you can't, you can't. But at least use it as the baseline. Everything else is fun, but it's not necessarily what we need to be doing for the mitzvah.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:52 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
You don't have to send an entire meal. Bake or buy a loaf cake and add an orange or apple. Voila, real food. Send one or two of these, and you're done.

Obviously, if the budget is too tight for that it's too tight. And if you can't, you can't. But at least use it as the baseline. Everything else is fun, but it's not necessarily want we need to be doing.

Thrilled that you have time to bake. You can't assume any of this. And I'd rather send many cheap mishloach manos to all friends and family than send two more expensive ones. Mishloach manos is my favorite part of Purim. This is the way I connect with family and friends that I don't always see.
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watergirl




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:53 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
You don't have to send an entire meal. Bake or buy a loaf cake and add an orange or apple. Voila, real food. Send one or two of these, and you're done.

Obviously, if the budget is too tight for that it's too tight. And if you can't, you can't. But at least use it as the baseline. Everything else is fun, but it's not necessarily want we need to be doing.

What makes this a mess for most people are perceived social obligations. So people feel they have to make and send 50+ mm. There have been polls on imamother every year re: how many do you send and what do they each cost. If you send only a few, they can be more appropriate and better fit the idea to send real food. If you feel you need to send a ton, you are more likely to send cute junk food things. I am happy to get either, any, and all. Bring on the laffy taffy.
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amother




Seashell
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:54 am
Maybe some people should not dress “put-together” because it makes others feel as if they don’t have it together. Maybe some people should not put flowers on their Shabbos table because it’s wasted money and they will die anyway. Maybe some people shouldn’t keep their house neat because others might feel bad about their own messy homes. Maybe everyone should just make chicken on the bone for Shabbos because a fancier Shabbos meal makes others feel inadequate. Maybe people shouldn’t decorate their homes nicely because others will feel bad that they don’t have that domesticated knack. Some people actually enjoy receiving an aesthetically pleasing MM. If it’s too much for you and you feel pressure because yours doesn’t match or looked pulled together then maybe thats something you struggle with across the board. Either work on yourself not to care, or work harder to make yours something you’re proud of.
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SuperWify




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 11:55 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
You don't have to send an entire meal. Bake or buy a loaf cake and add an orange or apple. Voila, real food. Send one or two of these, and you're done.

Obviously, if the budget is too tight for that it's too tight. And if you can't, you can't. But at least use it as the baseline. Everything else is fun, but it's not necessarily want we need to be doing.


Believe it or not according to some opinions giving out a soda can and bag of jelly beans is enough to be yotzei. Let everyone do what they learned is enough.

Personally, I learned to need something substantial. This year is very hectic for me and I was considering with dh encouragement to buy a pack of water rolls and a ice coffee together. Then bH I found an adorable option- someone sells fresh baked goods at a very decent price all that is left for me is to wrap it.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 12:03 pm
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
Maybe some people should not dress “put-together” because it makes others feel as if they don’t have it together. Maybe some people should not put flowers on their Shabbos table because it’s wasted money and they will die anyway. Maybe some people shouldn’t keep their house neat because others might feel bad about their own messy homes. Maybe everyone should just make chicken on the bone for Shabbos because a fancier Shabbos meal makes others feel inadequate. Maybe people shouldn’t decorate their homes nicely because others will feel bad that they don’t have that domesticated knack. Some people actually enjoy receiving an aesthetically pleasing MM. If it’s too much for you and you feel pressure because yours doesn’t match or looked pulled together then maybe thats something you struggle with across the board. Either work on yourself not to care, or work harder to make yours something you’re proud of.

This.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 12:08 pm
By the way, you are only obligated to give mishloach manos to only one person. So if you are worried that it needs to be substantial or for the Purim Seuda , you can give one person grape juice and a kugel and all your other friends you can give candy out of good will and friendship and you will still be yotzai, according to those that hold candy is not a valid mm.

My youngest son taught me a lesson two years ago Purim, he was 8 at the time. He was making mm for a few friends. The biggest and best one he made for Chaim. I was shocked. I asked him “Why are you even giving Chaim mm? He hurts you on the school bus. He’s not even your age. You have nothing to do with him”. And he answered , that mishloach manos is given to build friendship and that we should make an effort to give those that we don’t like so much , or are not really friends with. I was so impressed and took the lesson for myself. This year , I plan on giving mm to people in my neighborhood who don’t even say Hi to me when I pass them. Since I won’t have time to go to my friends this year I figured I’d take that lesson from my son and give to those who I don’t have a friendship with.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 12:30 pm
Crookshanks wrote:
Seriously??

No. Not seriously. Tongue in cheek. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Yes, I would find it deeply odd if this became a thing to the extent that anyone beyond the "art class was my favorite class" crowd feel obligated to participate. But no, I would not rush off to battle, or to anything beyond an eye-roll and a few threats to embarrass my kids by attaching my own artistic efforts to our family's MM.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 1:06 pm
amother [ Seashell ] wrote:
Maybe some people should not dress “put-together” because it makes others feel as if they don’t have it together. Maybe some people should not put flowers on their Shabbos table because it’s wasted money and they will die anyway. Maybe some people shouldn’t keep their house neat because others might feel bad about their own messy homes. Maybe everyone should just make chicken on the bone for Shabbos because a fancier Shabbos meal makes others feel inadequate. Maybe people shouldn’t decorate their homes nicely because others will feel bad that they don’t have that domesticated knack. Some people actually enjoy receiving an aesthetically pleasing MM. If it’s too much for you and you feel pressure because yours doesn’t match or looked pulled together then maybe thats something you struggle with across the board. Either work on yourself not to care, or work harder to make yours something you’re proud of.

You can do anything you want in your own house or in privacy on a vacation away. I mean if you dress stunning that all men look at you it’s not ok. You can make creative and pretty mm but the fact that people are scratching their head and spend weeks ahead doing mass operation is not ok. Chazal said a meal specifically. Why did they say it not if they foresaw that people will give other stuff and it’s not mm anymore. It’s like secular Jews make eye popping bar/bas mitzvas.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 1:22 pm
ora_43 wrote:
embarrass my kids by attaching my own artistic efforts to our family's MM.
LOL
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amother




Magenta
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 1:50 pm
Crookshanks wrote:
Chessed and modesty is for people who are wealthy/talented/creative to work on. It's not for you to tell them to work on it. You need to work on farginning people with more than you, and they need to work on doing things quietly. It's not on you to tell other people what part of yiddishkeit they should be working on at the moment.

I said that we don’t have real leaders rabbis in our generation. I don’t tell anyone not to do anything. I’m just sad that we don’t have rabbis going and putting on rules. Like chazal used to do. As long as we don’t have rules about mm anyone is free to do as they like.
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Crookshanks




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Feb 22 2021, 2:00 pm
ora_43 wrote:
No. Not seriously. Tongue in cheek. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Yes, I would find it deeply odd if this became a thing to the extent that anyone beyond the "art class was my favorite class" crowd feel obligated to participate. But no, I would not rush off to battle, or to anything beyond an eye-roll and a few threats to embarrass my kids by attaching my own artistic efforts to our family's MM.

Thank G-d! I was starting to prepare my armory.
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