Does this not freak you all out?

browser

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 9:20 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Huh? America is america. Israel is Israel. No, american liberties and rights and things are not a given any other place on earth except america.
What a strange thing to assume.
And blue amother, each of your replies is stranger than the next.

Of course G-d given rights apply everywhere
If the Jewish state was run by torah principles those would be protected there.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 9:41 am

browser wrote:

Of course G-d given rights apply everywhere
If the Jewish state was run by torah principles those would be protected there.

We don't look to the US constitution's founding fathers interpretation of what G-d given rights are. The US was not founded by Rabbeim.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 9:43 am

[quote="amother [ OP ]"]

DrMom wrote:

Doctors are not giving hydroxychloroquine, when this has been proven to help. This is something the pharmaceutical industry made sure of, bec if it was used there would be no need for the vaccine.

You have the same chance recovering from covid with the vaccine and without. In fact I know ppl that took both vaccines and had covid. Dont tell me symptoms wouldve been worse without the vaccine cuz they were pretty sick.

There is no way to know if the vaccine actually works and ppl that travel and took both vaccines dont have to quarantine , makes NO sense cuz they can still carry the virus so this is all one big mess, no science and no sense,

Want to be 100% safe, stay locked in forever.......

What evidence do you have that doctors in Israel aren't ever treating with hydroxychloroquine and zinc?

Teomima

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 10:14 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

What evidence do you have that doctors in Israel aren't ever treating with hydroxychloroquine and zinc?

The (known) covid mortality rate is 2.5 times higher in the US than in Israel. Meanwhile 39.5% of the population in Israel is fully vaccinated (have received both doses) whereas only 8.2% of the population in the States is (though I have a huge amount of respect for how hard the States is trying. The population is just so large, it's hard to keep up. But they are working hard to give as many shots as possible).

How anyone could argue that doctors in Israel aren't doing everything humanly possible to treat and prevent covid-19 is beyond me.

amother

Papaya

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 10:39 am

Teomima wrote:

Israel's high vaccination rate can be explained (in part) by infrastructure and vaccine availability.

browser

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 12:53 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

We don't look to the US constitution's founding fathers interpretation of what G-d given rights are. The US was not founded by Rabbeim.

They actually drew from the Torah.
We are created in the image of G-d and life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a right.
And it's a responsibility to guard those rights.

Last edited by browser on Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Thu, Mar 04 2021, 12:57 pm

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

amother [ OP ] wrote:

DrMom wrote:

Doctors are not giving hydroxychloroquine, when this has been proven to help. This is something the pharmaceutical industry made sure of, bec if it was used there would be no need for the vaccine.

You have the same chance recovering from covid with the vaccine and without. In fact I know ppl that took both vaccines and had covid. Dont tell me symptoms wouldve been worse without the vaccine cuz they were pretty sick.

There is no way to know if the vaccine actually works and ppl that travel and took both vaccines dont have to quarantine , makes NO sense cuz they can still carry the virus so this is all one big mess, no science and no sense,

Want to be 100% safe, stay locked in forever.......

What evidence do you have that doctors in Israel aren't ever treating with hydroxychloroquine and zinc?

Just to be clear, the words following my name were not written by me.
Somehow the person you quoted stuck my name in her post -- but these words have nothing to do with me.

browser

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:31 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

What evidence do you have that doctors in Israel aren't ever treating with hydroxychloroquine and zinc?

It's common knowledge that the official recommendation is not to give hcq and zinc in Israel.
Not sure if they made it unavailable for off label use. Something that was never done with a legal drug until now.
Israel is using its population as a test lab for the new mrna vaxx. This is out in the open.
This while taking away the most freedom and human rights of any country.
I'm looking at this picture and thinking, if Jewish people respected each other could this happen?
Would people really tolerate this insane and illegal apartheid?
But because Jews do not respect each other, they are literally letting their country turn into a horror show.

Last edited by browser on Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Papaya

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:32 am

browser wrote:

you lost me at the bolded.

Teomima

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:47 am

browser wrote:

Israel is using its population as a test lab for the new mrna vaxx. This is out in the open.

Israel has administered just shy of 8.5 million doses. The US has administered over 82.5 million. So pray tell how exactly we are the test lab?

browser

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 1:56 am

Teomima wrote:

Israel has administered just shy of 8.5 million doses. The US has administered over 82.5 million. So pray tell how exactly we are the test lab?

Context, my friend.
That is over 50 percent of the population in Israel.
Israel is using coercion, basically anyone who has concerns and would not like to take this treatment is a second class citizen without many basic rights.
But, yeah, this is an issue everywhere that people allow it to happen

DrMom

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:00 am

browser wrote:

What "many basic rights" does an unvaccinated person not have in Israel?

The "basic right" to eat indoors in a restaurant?

Teomima

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:02 am

browser wrote:

Huh? Do you even live here? What in the world are you basing this on?

DrMom

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:09 am

browser wrote:

Israeli hospital tried hcq but found other drugs (like remdesivir) to be more effective, so they use those other drugs to treat covid patients. Isn't that a good thing? Why is that bad? Why is treating with hcq the litmus test for deciding if someone's motivations are pure or nefarious? Please explain.

Also, hcq interferes with the effectiveness of remdesivir, so it makes sesnse that they cannot prescribe both at the same time.

Here is a source for this information:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/.....pany/

As for zinc -- anybody can buy that in any SuperPharm or drugstore, no prescription needed.

browser

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:23 am

Hcq was not found to be very effective in hospital treatment.
It should be available as an outpatient treatment- before people need to go to the hospital.
Then there is the issue of coercing people to take a treatment and not being upfront about the experimental nature of it.

Rappel

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:27 am

browser wrote:

It already is... My friend's FIL is at home with Corona and just got his yesterday...

Browser, your posts don't make any sense in Israel. You sound like you're reaching around trying to find a reason to be upset. Is it possible that really, everything is okay, but something is bothering you personally? If so, that's fine. Let's talk about it.

DrMom

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:32 am

browser wrote:

I think everybody agrees that preventing hospitalization is good. Why do you endorse hcq to prevent hospitalization but not vaccines (which also prevent hospitalization)?

And going back to my questions above:
1. What are the "basic human rights" you claim are being denied to non-vaccinated Israelis?
2. Why is it bad to treat covid with drugs other than hcq if they are more effective?

ora_43

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Have you looked at the studies? So far hydroxychloroquine proponents have struggled to prove that there's any improvement in the numbers when it's administered. It is still given to patients in many hospitals, just in case, but when you hear all of the "I took hydroxychloroquine and got better!" stories keep in mind that most people who have covid get better. The question is whether more people get better with a given drug than without, and it's really not clear whether that's the case.

(If you have actual proof that it helps, that would be a super-useful thing that many medical journals would be interested in.)

And then on the other hand, the numbers showing that vaccines do help are overwhelmingly clear.

There's a reason we have statistics. You can always find one guy who survived a shark attack, and another who was killed by a cow. And yet, sharks are more dangerous than cows.

browser

Fri, Mar 05 2021, 2:57 am

So far gyms, shuls and a few other places officially under green passport.

The names of people who do not take it are allowed to be released to the education department.
Many people have been threatened with their jobs.
This is how you create an underclass where healthy people are considered "diseased" unless they take what you tell them to take.
Being able to travel is a big concern.
There is no telling where this will go if a society embraces this.