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How to Respond to Disrespect in Young Children
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:33 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
Perhaps the middle would be treating all humans with respect and, as the adult in the relationship, acting respectfully! Getting ALL needs met- more so our children. We are literally here as mothers to provide for their needs.

I feel sad that there are any children that aren't getting the connection and understanding they NEED because they don't yet have all the tools to express it according to their parents desires.
Crying


Disciplining a child doesn't mean you don't respect the child. A child and a parent are not on equal levels of respect. This is what's missing in all of these arguments. A child needs to respect a parent tenfold. A parent doesn't need to show the same respect towards a child.

A parent can still show love and respect and send the child to his room. A parent can still show love and respect and calmly tell off the child for speaking chutzpahdig.
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:35 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Why ARE kids so different these days? Perhaps its because we swung the pendulum from one direction of authorative parenting to completely the other end of permissive parenting. We need the middle route. Punishment has its place, as does listening and emphasizing with the child. The difficult part is knowing when to do what.


We do not know exactly why kids today are as they are. I’m sure many people have opinions about this. Regardless, we have to deal with them as they are, and research shows that many commonly used parenting methods are not great for today’s kids.
People have studied and researched the best way to parent these children of today and BH we parents have this information available to us!
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:37 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Just because you teach a child self-regulation skills does not mean he will choose to use them.


Great! True! So what can help a child to use the self regulation skills in the moment? Why would a child not be using them?
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:39 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
I fully agree regarding the middle route, I just don’t see how punishment fits in there. Firm boundaries, yes. Punishment? I don’t see the positive effect of punishment.

Research doesn’t see it either. So can you answer my question - what does punishment teach the child? Besides for that in his greatest moment of distress and dysregulation, when he can’t figure out how to calm himself down and act appropriately, you will expect him to figure it out on his own or to get in trouble.


Because occasionally, and I stress occasionally, the only thing that gets a child to cooperate if he fears the consequences. You can validate and emphasize all you want, but fear of a (fair) consequence may give him pause.

You can have an angry child screaming and calling you all kinds of names in front of all the other children. You can emphasize and validate all you want, but when he is in that mode, it goes in one ear out the other. But if he knows he will end up in his room, away from all his toys, that may calm him down quicker. And then later on in the day, you sit down with him and discuss what happened, and suggest better modes of handling the situation.

And most importantly, you reward him when he utilizes any of those modes.
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:41 pm
I asked my children tonight about punishments and their thoughts on it. One said- they must feel so sad in their room alone. Aren't they confused why the mother is is doing that? She can't think of another way except for making her kid not feel loved? (She's under 5yo btw) my other child just said- if there's another way why do that?

They couldn't believe a child who needs help could be treated that way. And they are children themselves!
For those who do have (adult) children who were punished, would you be willing to ask them how they felt in those situations? I'm curious to hear.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:41 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
I am saying that just because something gets the desired outcome, doesn't mean it it kind, correct, or to be done.

Would you prefer a child speak their feelings or do only your needs matter? Would you prefer share when they are in pain or feel afraid of being punished? Would you rather a child "just take it" from the adult because that's "respectful"?


I advocated children learning to express their feelings/needs RESPECTFULLY.

And that parents TEACH their children how to do so.

Do you have a problem with that?
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:44 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I advocated children learning to express their feelings/needs RESPECTFULLY.

And that parents TEACH their children how to do so.

Do you have a problem with that?


I absolutely wouldn't have a problem. Except you mentioned earlier you send them to their room alone. I disagree that that is respectful.
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amother




Slategray
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:44 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I advocated children learning to express their feelings/needs RESPECTFULLY.

And that parents TEACH their children how to do so.

Do you have a problem with that?


There is a difference between teaching and punishing.
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:44 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Research is based on the times. Back then the research was that authoritative parenting is what raises good children. Now it's this. Who knows what 20 years from now will bring? Perhaps they'll upend the recommendations of today.

Relying too much on research upends a mother's instinct. We are wiping out a mother's instinct in all of this.


I respectfully disagree. We go with cutting edge research on everything else, why should it be different when it comes to parenting? Research on childhood development has come so far in the last 20 years.
Compare this to cancer treatment - if there used to be mediocre treatment available, and today there is better treatment, should we not use this treatment because in 10 years there may be an even better treatment?

But even if you do not agree, if a mother is struggling, and is not sure regarding her instinct, research is definitely more accurate then a different mother’s instinct.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:44 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
I asked my children tonight about punishments and their thoughts on it. One said- they must feel so sad in their room alone. Aren't they confused why the mother is is doing that? She can't think of another way except for making her kid not feel loved? (She's under 5yo btw) my other child just said- if there's another way why do that?

They couldn't believe a child who needs help could be treated that way. And they are children themselves!
For those who do have (adult) children who were punished, would you be willing to ask them how they felt in those situations? I'm curious to hear.


oookaaay....

So child refuses to listen to parent, says NO! Calls Mommy Crazy, etc.

You have explained many times that this behavior is wrong and TAUGHT child how to ask for
what he wants Respectfully but he chooses NOT to.

Your response is...???
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:44 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
I asked my children tonight about punishments and their thoughts on it. One said- they must feel so sad in their room alone. Aren't they confused why the mother is is doing that? She can't think of another way except for making her kid not feel loved? (She's under 5yo btw) my other child just said- if there's another way why do that?

They couldn't believe a child who needs help could be treated that way. And they are children themselves!
For those who do have (adult) children who were punished, would you be willing to ask them how they felt in those situations? I'm curious to hear.


You do realize children at this age don't have critical thinking skills, and children at this age would also agree that eating ice cream every day for lunch is good. All you have to do is feed them the information you want them to repeat. You can tell a five year old that ice cream is really delicious and makes a person feel really good when you eat it, so isn't it a good idea to let someone eat ice cream every day so that they feel good?

Obviously they're missing a lot of information in this. So forgive for not taking the thoughts of a five year old about how to raise kids.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:46 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
There is a difference between teaching and punishing.


What happens after you have taught child the Respectful way to communicate but he continues
to call Mom "Crazy"?
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:46 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
There is a difference between teaching and punishing.


Exactly. Does anyone have any insight as to a positive long term effect of punishing, how being punished teaches the child something or helps him learn how to control himself?
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:48 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
What happens after you have taught child the Respectful way to communicate but he continues
to call Mom "Crazy"?


Well the question is why is he doing that? And whatever the reason is, how will punishing help him stop doing it?
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:49 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
I respectfully disagree. We go with cutting edge research on everything else, why should it be different when it comes to parenting? Research on childhood development has come so far in the last 20 years.
Compare this to cancer treatment - if there used to be mediocre treatment available, and today there is better treatment, should we not use this treatment because in 10 years there may be an even better treatment?

But even if you do not agree, if a mother is struggling, and is not sure regarding her instinct, research is definitely more accurate then a different mother’s instinct.


All the cancer research has led to better treatment. With all the new parenting research, are our children faring better?. We all agreed that our children are different from previous generations. Are they different in a better sense? Or has it gone from one extreme to another? Is it possible that all this research has a hand in this?
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:51 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
You do realize children at this age don't have critical thinking skills, and children at this age would also agree that eating ice cream every day for lunch is good. All you have to do is feed them the information you want them to repeat. You can tell a five year old that ice cream is really delicious and makes a person feel really good when you eat it, so isn't it a good idea to let someone eat ice cream every day so that they feel good?

Obviously they're missing a lot of information in this. So forgive for not taking the thoughts of a five year old about how to raise kids.


You're right, I wouldn't take parenting advice from them. However, their feelings are real and matter. I've learned so many things from them. Perhaps just to open our eyes and LISTEN. They are the tinokos shel beis Rabban.

And, as an aside, children who are taught how to listen to their body and feelings would definitely not eat ice cream everyday for lunch. Nor would they think it felt good.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:54 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
Well the question is why is he doing that? And whatever the reason is, how will punishing help him stop doing it?


For thousands of years, punishment has worked in decreasing bad behavior.

Do you deny that children in past generations were much more respectful then children today?
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:54 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
You're right, I wouldn't take parenting advice from them. However, their feelings are real and matter. I've learned so many things from them. Perhaps just to open our eyes and LISTEN. They are the tinokos shel beis Rabban.

And, as an aside, children who are taught how to listen to their body and feelings would definitely not eat ice cream everyday for lunch. Nor would they think it felt good.


You can listen, validate and emphasize, and you can also teach, set expectations and provide consequences for their actions. It's not a contradiction. Both could and should be done.

As an aside, you can tell a child anything. They still lack the critical thinking skills to create a big picture with missing details.
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:57 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
All the cancer research has led to better treatment. With all the new parenting research, are our children faring better?. We all agreed that our children are different from previous generations. Are they different in a better sense? Or has it gone from one extreme to another? Is it possible that all this research has a hand in this?


I encourage you to study this and get back to us! Until you do, it is your opinion, and many people have many different opinions regarding why it is like this. Without research an opinion is just an opinion.
With all the new parenting research are children getting better? Well do you see people running to accept the research or fighting it because ‘who says it’s true’?
And yes, I believe research shows that children who are being raised according to the current research are better at self control. But then again, I believe in the research of people who studied many children over many years rather than in the opinions of mothers who have raised a few children.

ETA and this has been my personal experience as well. My question is, why can we not teach children how to behave without punishing? What positive effect does punishing have on a child? How does it help them learn to behave?
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:58 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
oookaaay....

So child refuses to listen to parent, says NO! Calls Mommy Crazy, etc.

You have explained many times that this behavior is wrong and TAUGHT child how to ask for
what he wants Respectfully but he chooses NOT to.

Your response is...???


In the moment- "wow, is hear you saying No to me. Oh wow. Something is going on. I'm here to listen. Yes I see you really don't want to xyz. Ugh its so hard when mommy asks you to do something while you're playing. Etc..."

Once s/he is calm, "Earlier today you yelled no and called me mean. I don't like being called mean and also, screaming no isn't respectful. How about when I ask you to dosomething difficult you ask me back another option- like can I have another minute? I will also try to discuss things with you beforehand when I am able. I know you have a need for understanding too.
Then I'd LISTEN. And collaborate.
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