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How to Respond to Disrespect in Young Children
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 2:59 pm
amother [ Babypink ] wrote:
Where can I find his chinuch advice/info?


WhatsApp Subscribe to (786) 859-3368
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:01 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
What if I don't want to give my child an extra 7 minutes ever?


I don't know.
I'm not raising robots.
I think the most important midday for a child to learn to carry over into adulthood is flexibility and the ability to communicate their wants and compromise. So I try to model that.
And I try to allow that
I think a child who has to come in at 7, no extra time EVER no matter how important it feels to the child is more likely to become an adult who walks in the door at 6 demanding where supper is and there's absolutely no excuse why it's not ready.
As opposed to an adult who was raised with the skill of compromise and flexibility who can walk in the door and suppers not ready, but can understand that life isn't always exact.
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mizle10




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:18 pm
keym wrote:
I don't know.
I'm not raising robots.
I think the most important midday for a child to learn to carry over into adulthood is flexibility and the ability to communicate their wants and compromise. So I try to model that.
And I try to allow that
I think a child who has to come in at 7, no extra time EVER no matter how important it feels to the child is more likely to become an adult who walks in the door at 6 demanding where supper is and there's absolutely no excuse why it's not ready.
As opposed to an adult who was raised with the skill of compromise and flexibility who can walk in the door and suppers not ready, but can understand that life isn't always exact.


Ok but let’s say we’re not talking about extra time. Child is adamant he/she wants to cross the street by him/herself. There isn’t always a compromise, and it’s ok for a child to be told no. In life there are times when we’re told no (a job, a shidduch etc) and there’s no compromise. Being able to accept that is at least equally as important as being flexible.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:20 pm
You know what this thread proves? That there is no ONE approach that will work for educating every child. Some children are behaving disrespectfully to communicate that they are suffering and need empathy.
Some children behave disrespectfully because they have neurological disabilities that communicate that they need interventions and therapies and perhaps medication. Some children behave disrespectfully because they are inclined to challenge and test limits and manipulate, and they are communicating that they need firm discipline. Now if only our children came with instruction manuals...
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keym




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 3:26 pm
mizle10 wrote:
Ok but let’s say we’re not talking about extra time. Child is adamant he/she wants to cross the street by him/herself. There isn’t always a compromise, and it’s ok for a child to be told no. In life there are times when we’re told no (a job, a shidduch etc) and there’s no compromise. Being able to accept that is at least equally as important as being flexible.


Of course.
As long as we are talking about a 4 year old and not a 10 year old.
Amother olive said she doesn't want to let her child have the extra 7 minutes ever.
That took me by surprise.

And I have some very stubborn children who need, need, need choices. And I've realized there's always a way to give a child a choice so they feel heard.
Do you want to hold my hand or should I hold your hand?
Do you want to hold my hand or the stroller?
We're going to hold hands. Should we walk or skip across the street?
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:14 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I agree. Tell DS that "chutzpah is muktzah" (DVD by Dr. Yael Respler). It is an AVEIRAH, just
like chillul shobbos or eating Treif!

Make a list of clear rules and tell him he will be PUNISHED if he breaks the rules.

1. If Mother/Father tells you to do something you must do it.

2. If Mother/Father tells you to stop doing something you must stop.

3. You may not say "No" to Mother/Father.

4. You may not talk back disrespectfully to Mother/Father.

Decide on appropriate punishment -

Sending to room, losing desert, losing yummy snack for school, take away favorite toy,
take away allowance, etc.

Very important to STAY CALM and not to yell.

Act like a cop giving a ticket - no emotion. You broke the rules, you pay the "fine".

I do similar to what you mentioned but what happens if the child doesn’t follow though with the consequence, which equals to more chutzpah and misbehavior. Also I feel like I’m dispensing ‘tickets’ all day!! I would never ever have dared to talk back to my parents this way. I’m appalled at the disrespect. Any other ideas of how to nip it in the bud??
Also want to mention that I’m close to my son. We chat all the time, I empathize and listen to him, etc. Perhaps my parenting is too permissive?
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:26 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Number 2 is just not normal.
Chutzpah is never allowed. I used to be very rigid about this and send my children to the porch or the basement or the oversized toy closet when they would speak disrespectfully, but now I've learned to ask them to rephrase what they are saying. Still, chutzpah is worse than physical violence to me.


Would you be willing to share why you think #2 isn't normal?
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luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:30 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I do similar to what you mentioned but what happens if the child doesn’t follow though with the consequence, which equals to more chutzpah and misbehavior. Also I feel like I’m dispensing ‘tickets’ all day!! I would never ever have dared to talk back to my parents this way. I’m appalled at the disrespect. Any other ideas of how to nip it in the bud??
Also want to mention that I’m close to my son. We chat all the time, I empathize and listen to him, etc. Perhaps my parenting is too permissive?


How wonderful that your child's integrity is so strong, he knows what he needs in order to stay true to the perfect way Hashem made him! He will not bend to the will of others. He will do whatever it takes to get his needs met. The difficulty this places for the parent is that you may need to work extra hard to figure out his root needs and be able to collaborate with him. To be able to differentiate and help him ultimately differentiate between wants and needs.

In my experience, "integrity" children are the ones who test us- and the ones who teach us the most. If we're willing to truly deeply listen.

You mention that you are close and are able to have conversation with him. Did you ask him how it feels for him when he yells "no"? His answer may be very helpful for you!
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:43 pm
mizle10 wrote:
These imaginary conversations are making me laugh. Sure, if I tell my child I understand them and they should please rephrase that in a nice way they will calm down and talk respectfully. Or, they will scream BUT I DONT WANT TO and have a fit. I’m guessing it will be the latter.


I agree with you. These are all conversations that will work in a theoretical setting where the child will be so very receptive to what you're saying and not so much when he is in a fit of anger or all riled up.

Realistically speaking, you have to cut the behavior short and then follow up with one of these different versions that were mentioned here. Cutting the behavior short, doesn't necessarily mean punish, you just do what the situation requires to cut it short. Then later when is all calm, you have a conversation about it.

And you also need to use common sense. Different responses are needed for an occasional slip versus a frequent occurrence.
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amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:44 pm
Most people think there are two main parenting styles, either tough parenting or lenient parenting. (Aggressive vs permissive). As someone in the parenting field, I believe both are potentially harmful, but there is a middle road. I call it assertive parenting. Holding firm boundaries while maintaining empathy and validation for the child.
Dr Becky Kennedy has some amazing online courses on this. She has a lot of information on her instagram page so you can get the feel of her work. I’d checkout her deeply feeling kids course if my child was behaving this way.
Good luck!
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amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 6:53 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
Chinuch Lnaar al pi darko. Best Bubby I’ve actually tried your way and it backfired majorly. My child is a very sweet kid who happens to have a lot of painful emotions to work through. Most of the time he is actually very good and compliant. If he acts up it usually means he needs love and help processing his feelings not a punishment!! I get Rabbi Brezak’s WhatsApp parenting tips and find them to be very helpful and in line with my parenting. I’m trying my hardest not to raise an abuser and I actually think your way would accomplish just that. May we all be zoche to raise our children to Torah, Chupah and Maasim Tovim!


Its very different when a child acts out only occasionally or is always chutzpahdig. If you always respond with in an angry aggressive manner, it will have repercussions. But you can stop a child in his tracks in a calm assured manner.

The key is setting the stage from when a child is very young. Teach and model proper behavior right from when they start talking. Let them know that its never acceptable, even when it appears cute and funny.

I've ingrained in my kids that being chutzpah'dig is NEVER acceptable to anyone. I've taught them that it is the foundation of all good middos and had many discussions about it. If they were disrespectful without being agitated, I've had them rephrase. If they ever were disrespectful in anger, I've told them that the conversation can't continue but I'll be more than ready to resume when they are. I've either sent them to their room or walked out myself. B"H, I'm glad to say that I have three young adults in/out of the house, and three teens in the house, and chutzpah is almost non-existent. They're no angels, but this is one thing that is not present in my house.

But then there's always a difficult child (in this area), and regular advice doesn't work. So no matter how much we all debate this issue here, OP needs input from someone who really knows her and her son.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 7:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I do similar to what you mentioned but what happens if the child doesn’t follow though with the consequence, which equals to more chutzpah and misbehavior. Also I feel like I’m dispensing ‘tickets’ all day!! I would never ever have dared to talk back to my parents this way. I’m appalled at the disrespect. Any other ideas of how to nip it in the bud??
Also want to mention that I’m close to my son. We chat all the time, I empathize and listen to him, etc. Perhaps my parenting is too permissive?


1. You can choose a punishment that does not depend on child's cooperation - like taking away
dessert, special snacks, or a toy. This does not require the child cooperate with going to his room.

2. You can try a REWARDS program. Explain what is ossur (not listening to parent, refusing to stop,
saying "no", talking back). For every DAY that child behaves, he receives a yummy treat - pick a nosh that he doesn't get other times, so it is special.

Also, If he behaves 5 Days in a Row - he gets to buy a prize from the
dollar store. But it must be 5 days IN A ROW to get the prize.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 7:56 pm
keym wrote:
The question is what's the goal?
To feed parent's ego of being obeyed or to raise a child who grows up knowing how to communicate like a mentch.
Scenario 1)
Mom: Yossi, time to put away bike and come inside.
Child: No. I don't wanna listen to you.
Mom: That's chutzpa. No dessert

Scenario 2)
Mom: Yossi, time to put away bike and come inside
Child: No. I don't wanna listen to you.
Mom: I hear you want to still play, but there's a way to ask Mommy respectfully. Please ask nicely.
Child: Please can I play for 5 more minutes. Moishy and I are having so much fun.
Mom: I want to allow it. But you were rude and chutzpadik to Mommy. Tonight I'll allow 3 extra minutes, but tomorrow if you remember to talk with Derech Eretz, you can stay out for 7 extra minutes.


I believe in Scenario 3:

Mom: Yossi, in 5 more minutes it is time to come in.

Also, if a child says "No" I would not jump to "No Dessert." But give a warning - if you don't
come in by the count of three you will lose dessert.

A Parent CAN NEGOTIATE - IF THE CHILD ASKS RESPECTFULLY.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Always give your kids a heads up - some time to transition.

When going on a trip to the amusement park - tell them BEFORE you go that you are only
going for TWO HOURS so they should keep that in mind when choosing which rides they want.

You have to be PROACTIVE and PREPARE children so they don't get upset later because they
didn't know the limits in advance.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:01 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
You seem to be very worked up about this topic.

Keep in mind that a defiant child is a child, not an adult, and there are many parenting methods, not just yours. What works for one, doesn't work for all.

Also: a defiant child is not an abusive monster, I don't know why this topic stirred you up this much but I have met plenty of defiant children who grew up as good loving husbands and wives.

Too much repression is also not good.


I see often on these threads where mothers who never punished and always empathised with
child WHEN MISBEHAVING has a total abusive monster by the time the child is a teen-ager.

If the kind and gentle approach works - then GREAT.

But a parent has to be AWARE when an approach is NOT WORKING and CHANGE METHODS.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:25 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
Most people think there are two main parenting styles, either tough parenting or lenient parenting. (Aggressive vs permissive). As someone in the parenting field, I believe both are potentially harmful, but there is a middle road. I call it assertive parenting. Holding firm boundaries while maintaining empathy and validation for the child.
Dr Becky Kennedy has some amazing online courses on this. She has a lot of information on her instagram page so you can get the feel of her work. I’d checkout her deeply feeling kids course if my child was behaving this way.
Good luck!

Thanks! This was really helpful.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:33 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
How wonderful that your child's integrity is so strong, he knows what he needs in order to stay true to the perfect way Hashem made him! He will not bend to the will of others. He will do whatever it takes to get his needs met. The difficulty this places for the parent is that you may need to work extra hard to figure out his root needs and be able to collaborate with him. To be able to differentiate and help him ultimately differentiate between wants and needs.

In my experience, "integrity" children are the ones who test us- and the ones who teach us the most. If we're willing to truly deeply listen.

You mention that you are close and are able to have conversation with him. Did you ask him how it feels for him when he yells "no"? His answer may be very helpful for you!

He may be impulsive, having a lazy moment, tempted to do something, wanting to continue what he’s doing at the moment, etc. We can talk about this and discuss different options of how he can respond in a respectful manner. But I’m the heat of the moment his reactions are completely disrespectful. Also, this behavior filters down to his younger siblings so I can be dispensing consequences all day between all of them.
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:35 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
1. You can choose a punishment that does not depend on child's cooperation - like taking away
dessert, special snacks, or a toy. This does not require the child cooperate with going to his room.

2. You can try a REWARDS program. Explain what is ossur (not listening to parent, refusing to stop,
saying "no", talking back). For every DAY that child behaves, he receives a yummy treat - pick a nosh that he doesn't get other times, so it is special.

Also, If he behaves 5 Days in a Row - he gets to buy a prize from the
dollar store. But it must be 5 days IN A ROW to get the prize.

What would you do if the child doesn’t care about any of the above?
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:39 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
WhatsApp Subscribe to (786) 859-3368

Any way to get this without WatsApp? Possibly by email?
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:47 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Its very different when a child acts out only occasionally or is always chutzpahdig. If you always respond with in an angry aggressive manner, it will have repercussions. But you can stop a child in his tracks in a calm assured manner.

The key is setting the stage from when a child is very young. Teach and model proper behavior right from when they start talking. Let them know that its never acceptable, even when it appears cute and funny.

I've ingrained in my kids that being chutzpah'dig is NEVER acceptable to anyone. I've taught them that it is the foundation of all good middos and had many discussions about it. If they were disrespectful without being agitated, I've had them rephrase. If they ever were disrespectful in anger, I've told them that the conversation can't continue but I'll be more than ready to resume when they are. I've either sent them to their room or walked out myself. B"H, I'm glad to say that I have three young adults in/out of the house, and three teens in the house, and chutzpah is almost non-existent. They're no angels, but this is one thing that is not present in my house.

But then there's always a difficult child (in this area), and regular advice doesn't work. So no matter how much we all debate this issue here, OP needs input from someone who really knows her and her son.


I’m so glad this method worked in your family. It worked in my ex husband’s family too, there was never chutzpah but he did end up becoming an addict. In my family I don’t remember ever being punished. We had the happiest most loving parents. It was always an incredibly positive atmosphere. My brother was extremely chutzpadik as a young child but he grew out of it. He is the most amazing kindest person today and a wonderful husband. We all have great respect for our parents and we’re all healthy adults bli ayin hara. Your way really isn’t the only way it sounds very harsh.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 8:57 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Any way to get this without WatsApp? Possibly by email?


Probably you can look for more information on the website.

https://chinuch-lifelines.org/
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