Home

How to Respond to Disrespect in Young Children
  Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next  Last >>
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children


View latest: 24h 48h 72h


amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:05 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I am a SEIT who is trained in ABA - applied BEHAVIORAL analyst. Ii have experience with MANY
children.

Of course punishment works - the GOVERNMENT would not use punishment (fines/jail) if it didn't.

I HAVE said to teach children HOW to communicate respectfully. Maybe you did not read that post.

I HAVE also said to teach children when they are upset to take a drink and spend some time alone
until they feel calm. Then talk to Mother about what is upsetting them. Maybe you did not read
that post either.


And that’s why the government has an insane rate of repeat offenders. There have been many studies questioning the efficacy of government punishments. I posted one above re speeding tickets.

I was questioning if you have any info regarding the effectiveness of punishment specifically as a means to teach skills of self control.
Back to top

amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:10 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
And that’s why the government has an insane rate of repeat offenders. There have been many studies questioning the efficacy of government punishments. I posted one above re speeding tickets.

I was questioning if you have any info regarding the effectiveness of punishment specifically as a means to teach skills of self control.


Specifically regarding the case you mentioned above where if a child is chutzpadik then the teacher will send them out of class -
I wonder which child is less likely to be punished for lack of self control in class, the child who is punished at home or the child whose mother taught him self regulation skills so that he can calm himself down even if he is angry about something his teacher did.
Back to top

luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:10 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I am a SEIT who is trained in ABA - applied BEHAVIORAL analyst. Ii have experience with MANY
children.

Of course punishment works - the GOVERNMENT would not use punishment (fines/jail) if it didn't.

I HAVE said to teach children HOW to communicate respectfully. Maybe you did not read that post.

I HAVE also said to teach children when they are upset to take a drink and spend some time alone
until they feel calm. Then talk to Mother about what is upsetting them. Maybe you did not read
that post either.


Of course punishment "works".

ABUSE WORKS TOO.

Define works.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:12 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
And that’s why the government has an insane rate of repeat offenders. There have been many studies questioning the efficacy of government punishments. I posted one above re speeding tickets.

I was questioning if you have any info regarding the effectiveness of punishment specifically as a means to teach skills of self control.


Government punishments are there merely to discourage others from doing the same crimes. Punishing criminals - especially the way it is actually done - rarely works to reform the offender.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:14 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
Specifically regarding the case you mentioned above where if a child is chutzpadik then the teacher will send them out of class -
I wonder which child is less likely to be punished for lack of self control in class, the child who is punished at home or the child whose mother taught him self regulation skills so that he can calm himself down even if he is angry about something his teacher did.


The child who is sent out is the child who was NOT punished OR taught self-reguation skills.

ANd I DID write about teaching self-regulation skills in an earlier post.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:15 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
Of course punishment "works".

ABUSE WORKS TOO.

Define works.


Works = Stops the Chutzpah.

Are you saying that ANY Punishment is Abuse?
Back to top

amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:16 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
The child who is sent out is the child who was NOT punished OR taught self-reguation skills.

ANd I DID write about teaching self-regulation skills in an earlier post.


I’m not sure since I don’t have research- backed data. But between those two children, who is more likely?

Additionally, if you have self regulation skills, why do you need punishment? What positive effect does punishment have - what does it teach?
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:19 pm
amother [ Yellow ] wrote:
This is the harsh part I was referring to

Sending to room, losing desert, losing yummy snack for school, take away favorite toy,
take away allowance, etc.


Now you're putting words into my mouth. I don't make them lose treats or take away anything, I send them to their rooms to calm down and for some introspection. If they're calm, I'll either ask to rephrase or I'm the one who walks away.

If that is harsh...
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:20 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Government punishments are there merely to discourage others from doing the same crimes. Punishing criminals - especially the way it is actually done - rarely works to reform the offender.


Reforming doesn't have a great track record either. It's actually a combo of both that's needed. One extreme is never good, it's usually the middle route that works best.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:21 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
I’m not sure since I don’t have research- backed data. But between those two children, who is more likely?

Additionally, if you have self regulation skills, why do you need punishment? What positive effect does punishment have - what does it teach?


Just because you teach a child self-regulation skills does not mean he will choose to use them.
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:23 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:
I believe we all want to teach our children self control. The question is, are you so sure that punishing is the way to teach that? Which part of receiving a punishment gives the child the skill to now know how to control himself? Did you do research or study this to know that the way to teach self control to a child is by punishing them?

Because years of psychological research shows a different story.

You (or others with your views on punishment) may not believe in “ psychological hooey “ but you only know what you experienced with a very small group of children (who as you said were pretty well behaved) whereas other people have been studying and researching this topic on hundreds or thousands of children over many years.

Those who have extensively researched punishment do not recommend it as a great way to teach. You’re not “teaching” your child anything, you’re basically telling him - go figure out on your own how to control yourself or you’ll be in trouble. You’re telling him - in your hardest moment, when you’re feeling so dysregulated and you’re acting out and you need me to help you learn how to calm yourself down, I’ll leave you to figure it out on your own or punish you.

Alternatively, we teach self control when we help our child learn to regulate their emotions in their moment of strong feelings, so that they can respond in a calm way or resist the urge to act inappropriately.

You can check dr Becky’s page for more info on this. Her page is so full of amazing info, supported by current psychological research.

And regarding punishing for thousands of years, I’m not sure that was true, since I wasn’t around then, and haven’t researched parenting styles over the centuries, but two points:
1. Kids today are different, whether we like it or not. What worked once doesn’t necessarily work now.
2. If research has shown that there is a better way to teach, why not use it? Would you use bloodletting to cure a fever? B”H we have people who do research and study and find out for us what the best way to parent is and give us that info!


Why ARE kids so different these days? Perhaps its because we swung the pendulum from one direction of authorative parenting to completely the other end of permissive parenting. We need the middle route. Punishment has its place, as does listening and emphasizing with the child. The difficult part is knowing when to do what.
Back to top

luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:24 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Works = Stops the Chutzpah.

Are you saying that ANY Punishment is Abuse?


I am saying that just because something gets the desired outcome, doesn't mean it it kind, correct, or to be done.

Would you prefer a child speak their feelings or do only your needs matter? Would you prefer share when they are in pain or feel afraid of being punished? Would you rather a child "just take it" from the adult because that's "respectful"?
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:27 pm
amother [ Black ] wrote:

2. If research has shown that there is a better way to teach, why not use it? Would you use bloodletting to cure a fever? B”H we have people who do research and study and find out for us what the best way to parent is and give us that info!


Research is based on the times. Back then the research was that authoritative parenting is what raises good children. Now it's this. Who knows what 20 years from now will bring? Perhaps they'll upend the recommendations of today.

Relying too much on research upends a mother's instinct. We are wiping out a mother's instinct in all of this.
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:30 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
I am saying that just because something gets the desired outcome, doesn't mean it it kind, correct, or to be done.

Would you prefer a child speak their feelings or do only your needs matter? Would you prefer share when they are in pain or feel afraid of being punished? Would you rather a child "just take it" from the adult because that's "respectful"?


This is quite a leap from her statements to yours. There is a lot of grey area in between.
Back to top

amother




Yellow
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:30 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Now you're putting words into my mouth. I don't make them lose treats or take away anything, I send them to their rooms to calm down and for some introspection. If they're calm, I'll either ask to rephrase or I'm the one who walks away.

If that is harsh...


I totally didn’t mean it I thought I was responding to best Bubby. I apologized back here.

[quote="amother [ Yellow ]"]I’m so sorry amother bisque, I just realized I mixed you up with best Bubby.[/quote
Back to top

luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:30 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Why ARE kids so different these days? Perhaps its because we swung the pendulum from one direction of authorative parenting to completely the other end of permissive parenting. We need the middle route. Punishment has its place, as does listening and emphasizing with the child. The difficult part is knowing when to do what.


Perhaps the middle would be treating all humans with respect and, as the adult in the relationship, acting respectfully! Getting ALL needs met- more so our children. We are literally here as mothers to provide for their needs.

I feel sad that there are any children that aren't getting the connection and understanding they NEED because they don't yet have all the tools to express it according to their parents desires.
Crying
Back to top

amother




Bisque
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:31 pm
luckymom1 wrote:
Of course punishment "works".

ABUSE WORKS TOO.

Define works.


Does permissive work?
Back to top

amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:31 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Why ARE kids so different these days? Perhaps its because we swung the pendulum from one direction of authorative parenting to completely the other end of permissive parenting. We need the middle route. Punishment has its place, as does listening and emphasizing with the child. The difficult part is knowing when to do what.


I fully agree regarding the middle route, I just don’t see how punishment fits in there. Firm boundaries, yes. Punishment? I don’t see the positive effect of punishment.

Research doesn’t see it either. So can you answer my question - what does punishment teach the child? Besides for that in his greatest moment of distress and dysregulation, when he can’t figure out how to calm himself down and act appropriately, you will expect him to figure it out on his own or to get in trouble.
Back to top

amother




Black
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:32 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Does permissive work?


No, and that’s why we need assertive - not aggressive or permissive
Firm boundaries with validation and empathy
Back to top

luckymom1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Mar 15 2021, 11:32 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Does permissive work?


Unlikely. Did something I say come across as permissive?
Back to top
  Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next  Last >> Recent Topics

Page 5 of 10 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
How to respond
by amother
4 Thu, Jun 17 2021, 11:54 am View last post
Publishing a children's book 2 Wed, Jun 16 2021, 8:31 pm View last post
Please help me stop yelling at my children
by amother
15 Tue, Jun 15 2021, 3:59 am View last post
Young in Passaic
by amother
11 Mon, Jun 14 2021, 3:11 pm View last post
Places to go for young couple 10 Sun, Jun 13 2021, 1:39 pm View last post