Working in secular environment-your challenges?

amother

Thu, Apr 29 2021, 11:32 pm

Both my Dh and I are professionals, working in different fields. We have both been very transparent from the start about our Shabbos needs and yontiv needs and our respective bosses always say, "no problem", "we support you" but then when push comes to shove there is a little backhanded comment, to imply I don't even know what. They say things like "well, we need to be fair to others" or "It needs to be equitable" which is total BS because we are not lazy. We work hard and do a good job. Shabbos is Shabbos. Shavuos? Yep, little known holiday to almost every non-Jew. It's a holiday for me! But since it isn't on the Hallmark calendar, must not be important. Or the other innocent comment "why do you have to take off and Miriam doesn't?"

Yes, I know we are not guaranteed anything. But it's the feinged support that really irks me. Or maybe it's the backhanded comments that get me thinking about what they really think about working with a religious Jew but don't say in so many words.

wish we could both quit. But then we'd have no jobs and would have to move to find new ones.

I'm venting. This hasn't helped yet but I'm hoping it will. If anyone can commisserate, sad to say, I'd be grateful.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 29 2021, 11:39 pm

Do haggim like Shavuot come off your vacation days? If so, I don't see why anyone else should care.

I'd make sure your direct manager is given a list of days you'll need off at the start of each fiscal year. That way there are no surprises, and s/he knows you are being transparent.

essie14

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 12:23 am

My chagim were just vacation days. Just like Christy can take a week off to go to a beach house with her family, I can take off 2 days for Shavuot.
Every January I worked out all the days off I would need for chag and then figured out how many vacation days I could take after that. They cant really deny you using PTO. Submit super early and you should be fine. Dont tell them it's a holiday. Everyone takes off for trips. They shouldn't care that it's a holiday.
I had a coworker who took off 3 days to prepare for Thanksgiving, no joke.

amother

Denim

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 12:41 am

Having no vacation days outside of yomim Tovim is very hard. BH I’m working there many years so have many days off. But it’s enough for yom tov and chol hamoed. No summer vacation, mid winter, Chanukah.

Kosher - day to day not so hard. Even company parties or going out to eat I just didn’t eat anything. And then one year another frum guy was hired. He asked for kosher food at the company party. It made things so complicated. Everyone wanted to know why I was eating out of a pan. They gave my meal to gluten free guy who break the seal and lots of other silliness. I’d rather just not eat.

Shabbos isn’t so bad. They’ve had emergencies were they call all Shabbos and leave multiple messages. After Shabbos I see emails flying. One is I can’t answer until sundown. So exactly sundown the phone starts ringing again.

Shaking hands. Everyone is pretty understanding. I’ve had some weird scenarios. Like once had new management and was presented an award on stage and you had to shake hands with everyone. My boss was trying to wave to tell them to stop. I just have a thank you wave when going up to accept. They must’ve thought I was nuts until I explained later.

(I live in Lakewood but work an hour south west were many ppl have never met a frum Jew)

amother

Copper

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 12:45 am

Same as essie 14.
You should have PTO. I like to remind them when I tell them that I am taking PTO for YT that I hate that I need to break it up for holidays on which I can’t use a car/tv/shop and then I don’t have the days to go to the beach for a week.

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 8:49 am

I work in public school. I am the only frum person working there. I get special permission to take off for YT with my pay getting docked for each day. I take advantage of all these days. I take off chol hamoed and sometimes erev Yt too. I am not sure if people are bothered by this but I honestly do not care! We don't really have personal days so this is how it works.

And as far as hand shaking goes, I am pretty reserved around men in general- I call all males by Mr. XX and not first names. It works in a school environment and again, I do not care. It sets a tone and they know I am not interested in schmoozing.

I know this might not work in all environments but it works for me!

amother

Jade

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 8:52 am

ChutzPAh wrote:

Every January I give a list of dates for the year that I want to take off. I think it helps that nothing is last minute and I also make sure to emphasize that I work xmas, New Years, ect

This, very important! Also change your language. You will be observing holy days in your religion, not just a "holiday."

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:07 am

Some people work in jobs that have rules about when you can take vacations. Holidays can trump those rules, but may cause resentment from people who wanted to take off the but can't.

For example, I know someone who works as a teacher in a public school. They have a rule that no teacher can take vacation the two days before or after a school break (like winter break or spring break), because otherwise everyone was putting in for it and it's hard on the kids and the school when teachers are gone those days. My friend is allowed to take off days for Pesach when they fall on those days (she doesn't take chol hamoed). She has definitely gotten resentment.

amother

Beige

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:11 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

I work in a public school and they clamped down hard on taking off for religious holidays, obviously some people were taking advantage. They have it figured out, to the day, so you can take off for the actual days of YT but no chol hamoed, or erev YT. 2 days allowed paid for religious holidays, then use your 3 days of personal business, then you are allowed to take a limited amount of unpaid days. I forget the actual number, maybe another 2 or 3 days? If not for Pesach usually falling over spring break, I wouldn't have enough days for YT itself. (Obviously I wouldn't go in, I'm sure I'd get a dispensation, but my point is, they figured it out to the extent of ensuring people take off for the actual days of YT itself, and that's it. They have the actual days noted on their calendar,
so they know. No Purim off, either. )

amother

Papaya

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:23 am

I use PTO, circulate my holiday calendar in advance of every year, and remind key people of upcoming days off 3-4 weeks ahead of time.

I also never misrepresent the times that I am religiously required to be "offline," as I call it, to include the times that I am choosing to take off. So if I choose to take off erev YT or an extra travel day, I don't characterize it as part of my religious holiday that I'm required to be offline.

singleagain

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:27 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

With my friend I call that radio silence.

Thank God I never had this experience since the only non-religious work environment I did I worked part-time. But it was still kind of interesting to explain to my coworkers why I never put in for work on Saturdays and certain months my availability was much more limited because of holidays.

I think if you're as respectful as you can be about it That's the best situation. And I agree with my dad always worked on Christm@s New Year's Thanksgiving even because no one else wanted to and you know his company he worked for a company was open 24/7

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:38 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Ooh that stinks. I am the only frum person so they aren't crazy strict about it. They know if I would request a non-holiday day off but they allow chol hamoed and erev Yt. I think there is a limit but I haven't had to use it all up. I think it is a total of 15 days allowed for holidays.

essie14

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:40 am

amother [ Papaya ] wrote:

I did the same, as well.
I was always available, unless it was actual Shabbat or Yom Tov, by phone.

amother

Denim

Fri, Apr 30 2021, 9:42 am

Pesach is very hard for accountants.
Not so simple to give time in advance.

A family member of mine worked for PCW. Not in tax department. Said if you left before 11 pm it was like a walk of shame. Taking pesach vacation during tax season was like the ultimate betrayal to your co-workers

amother

White

Sat, May 01 2021, 10:57 pm

I never considered it a "challenge" any more than I consider it a "challenge" to live in a climate that is bitter cold in winter and oppressive in summer. I call it "life."

But maybe that's because I grew up in a regular mixed-ethnicity neighborhood, played with children who assumed everyone celebrated Xmas, went to public school in summer, and learned at a young age how to live as an Orthodox Jew in a nonJewish world.

Which makes me think: when my dds were HS seniors, the school made a big thing about seminary being the thing that would "prepare our daughters for adult life as a Bas Torah in a nonjewish world." Now I'm thinking it's just the opposite. Seminary is nothing more than a continuation of the cotton-wool wrapping we use to protect our dc from the outside world, and prepares them only to continue living in that sort of environment. If we really want to prepare them for life in the velt, we should be sending them on short forays into the velt, to learn how to take for granted that they will need to use vacation days for yom tovim, negotiate schedule changes to allow them to leave work early on Fridays, and get used to having to fend for themselves for lunch.

ETA: To say nothing of not assuming that they should get a raise --or a gift for that matter--because they got married or had a baby.

amother

Mint

Sun, May 02 2021, 2:12 am

Yes, I took the days I needed but there was still occasional resentment. Not so much for my holidays, since I took from my vacation days. But rather from leaving early on Fridays during the winter. My bosses were always OK with it, but a particular co-worker used to mock me by saying oh yes the sun is really dropping fast now. Better run. Whatever. At the time it was annoying, now, decades later who cares. I did my work well, I always offered to come in x-mas, New Year's, the days before, the days after. I got good reviews and raises.
I also got ribbed about my kosher food. In most jobs I just avoided get togethers altogether. I worked for many huge companies and, really, no one cared it I showed up or not. But with one job I had to fly to Boston weekly for the day. The first time they noticed I didn't eat the catered lunch. I told them it's fine but they begged to help me out. So I mentioned Milk Street Cafe.
The next time I flew in the sandwiches were all opened and beautifully prepared on a platter. Mixed in with their food (though I had asked them to leave them in their original packing.) It was so awkward. They promised to do better next time though I REALLY wanted them to leave me alone at this point.
The next time I flew in I saw their was a Kosher platter. With opened sandwiches from both the Dairy and Meat shops. I was so embarrassed. At this point they were angry with me for not eating yet again.
From then on they did not bring in food for me.

amother

Azure

Sun, May 02 2021, 2:27 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

I work in public school also and I am the only frum yehudi, but im only allowed to take off yomtov, not erev yom tov(except erev pesach bec the "rituals" start erev like no chametz etc.) and not chol moed....

if you are allowed to take off chol hamoed too and erev succos/erev yom kippur/erev shavuos...its a lot of days, and principals dont want students missing...I wonder what your position is that the principal allows extra days bec. I know there are days designated as religious observance days ....

op many non jews dont know about succos or shavuos, but they can easily check on calendar to see that alternate side parking is canceled bec of shavuos(unless u are not in ny) ...but its hard when they get resentful...etc...

amother

Pewter

Sun, May 02 2021, 2:43 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

I also work in ps. Only frum person at my school, but not in my district.
15 days?! Wow. Or do they let you use your sick days as days off?
My district is really strict in general, technically you are supposed to show a doctor's note when taking a sick day. For sure if you take more than 2 days off in a row. I do need to provide documentation from a rabbi whenever I take off for YT, in any case....
Absences get processed through HR, anyway, so it has nothing to do with the principal.