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Is it possible to raise socially normal kids...
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amother




OP
 

Post Thu, May 06 2021, 10:11 pm
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
Also, just because you homeschool, doesn’t mean you have to do it all on your own. Many homeschoolers learn with a rebbi, whether one-on-one or in a small group, at a certain point. Talk to other homeschoolers in your city and gather lots of information before making a decision.


Thank you! Great ideas!
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 2:23 am
I’m not understanding this op.
What are you scared of that your children will be exposed to in your local yeshivos.
I’m as right wing yeshivish as they come, (think ima mother is my sneak misbehaviour) and my sons do just fine in their very sheltered very yeshivish cheder, as do my daughters in their beautiful toradig Bais yaakov.
We all love our children, and want them to grow up sheltered and erlich. So far I’ve been succeeding more then I even expected (I’m just being honest).
Why are your kids any different?
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farm




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 2:38 am
Others have pointed out that homeschooled kids have social opportunities in camp, shul, after school activities, the park, etc. But if you are homeschooling because you are afraid of what they may pick up from classmates, I imagine you would also want to avoid all of the above social opportunities... which will lead to kids who are socially off.
For what it’s worth, in my limited experience, the homeschooled kids I’ve encountered (all of 2 families) are too comfortable socially and end up joining my conversations with their parents/my friends instead of schmoozing or playing with kids their own age. And I’ve found it annoying and inappropriate.
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 2:48 am
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I’m not understanding this op.
What are you scared of that your children will be exposed to in your local yeshivos.
I’m as right wing yeshivish as they come, (think ima mother is my sneak misbehaviour) and my sons do just fine in their very sheltered very yeshivish cheder, as do my daughters in their beautiful toradig Bais yaakov.
We all love our children, and want them to grow up sheltered and erlich. So far I’ve been succeeding more then I even expected (I’m just being honest).
Why are your kids any different?


Where I live it's not a very yeshivish cheder nor is there a Bais Yaakov. I didn't grow up here. It's a Jewish day school (separate boys and girls in the same building). Families range from yeshivish to very modern so the kids are exposed to different types of ppl/hashkafos...
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 3:04 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Where I live it's not a very yeshivish cheder nor is there a Bais Yaakov. I didn't grow up here. It's a Jewish day school (separate boys and girls in the same building). Families range from yeshivish to very modern so the kids are exposed to different types of ppl/hashkafos...

I'm not against homeschooling but it seems wrong for you.

The only "socially normal" homeschoolers I met are the ones who where homeschooled for elementary but started going to school for HS or at least Sem/Yeshiva + camp from HS age.

To protect your kids 100% you need zero social interaction which breeds socially awkward kids.

I would move to a community in line with your values before Homeschooling unless you mean to do it on short term basis
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amother




OP
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 3:14 am
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
I'm not against homeschooling but it seems wrong for you.

The only "socially normal" homeschoolers I met are the ones who where homeschooled for elementary but started going to school for HS or at least Sem/Yeshiva + camp from HS age.

To protect your kids 100% you need zero social interaction which breeds socially awkward kids.

I would move to a community in line with your values before Homeschooling unless you mean to do it on short term basis


I hear you. That's what I'm thinking too at this point. Thanks Smile
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 3:20 am
Didn't read the responses, but sending to school isn't a guarantee that the kid will be socially fluent.

My mom has terrible social anxiety and I picked up on that even though I went to school from Kindergarten (MAYBE going to preschool/daycare would have helped since I was less influenced by my mom then). It wasn't until I left my mom's house and lived on campus (19) that I started the long road of becoming socially normal. By my late 20's I don't think anyone would think I was off.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 3:30 am
I see most ppl wrote that they know homeschoolers who kids are amazing at everything but I’ll tell u the other side’s perspective.
We know a fam that homeschooled all their kids because the school system is terrible (I agree with that 100%). Some are still and some now married. The younger ones esp don’t have the best social skills and have no clue how to relate to kids their age. Yes it’s very nice that they’re so comfortable with adults but what abt exposure to peers?
Happens to be they did the Jewish and Torah education part rly well (hired rebbeim when needed, etc) but not language at all and most of the kids struggles in one way or another (even the now marrieds really don’t sound great speaking)
It’s a problem cuz both home and regular school are not good options so I guess u have to choose the lesser of two evils. Lack of social skills or corrupted school system??!!
Maybe I’ll open up a little school for all who won’t settle on either lol
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 3:31 am
I've seen it go both ways.

If you invest in their social education - playdates with neighbors, meetups with other homeschool families, youth groups - then they can become real leaders.

If you isolate them into the family circle, or only set them up to communicate with adults - I've seen a fair bit of social awkwardness.

----

I know you didn't ask this, but I think it's important:

I think it's easy to socialize a homeschool kid. I think it's harder to teach them to follow through on a project when things don't interest them.

You're their parent. You want to teach them at their pace, and in an ideal, creative, enriched learning environment.

Homeschool kids become so used to tailored, customized programs that while they have great abilities and creativity in setting up independent projects (custom degrees, start-up companies, etcm), when the going gets tough, or boring, they often drop out and turn to other things.

There is a life skill which most of us learned in school, and that is that sometimes we need to conform, put our heads down, and work hard even when we hate the teacher/subject/hours/program.

We need to work in groups and do unpleasant jobs sometimes in order to achieve. It's very difficult to teach that to a homeschooled kid. However, it's essential for them to learn it in order to enable them to succeed in life.

If you succeed there, then you end up with a winning combination of leadership skills and the ability to work hard. It's worth it.
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amother




Rose
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 7:23 am
So many posters above made very good points so excuse any repetitions..

I've been working for a family a a Limudei kodesh homeschool teacher for over a decade so have watched the development of the kids up close, and have met a number of other homeschoolers on the process. This particular family is *very* successful as homeschoolers for a number of reasons:

* the mom teaches only 2 or 3 of the subjects and they hire expert teachers for the all the other subjects.

* the mother is essentially running a full-time school: coordinating all the activities and classes for each kids, teaching some, etc. She knows what she is doing, is connected to MANY resources, and hence, very successful

*they have ample cleaning help in the house

* they regularly get together with other kids in certain group homeschool classes and activities

* socially they are very normal and as a poster above mentioned, are comfortable socializing with kids of all ages- and advantage over common grade-level socializing

*they homeschool for the individualized attention and educational reasons

However-

You seem to want to homeschool to shelter your children from the world. Unfortunately, this is a recipe for socially deficient children (take it from me, my parents tried this and it took me years to become normal socially)

Also, neither you nor your husband seem to be educationally trained or equipped to do this (ex: flashcards)

I have a friend who tried it, who was not equipped and did not connect to any homeschool network and failed in a few months.

Yes, it's challenging, the world is going to influence your sweet kids. You will do your best be exemplifying your values at home, leading by example, and surrounding them with good influences as much as possible.
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amother




Cerise
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 8:05 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you for all of your responses.
I guess I'll get down to it bc I'm anonymous anyways. OK- We may sound overly protective (and I'll accept it if I am) and maybe extreme but here goes:
-We're both worried about exposure, which obviously we have no worries while they're at home
-you never know who can do/say something inappropriate to them c"v. My oldest is a pure, innocent, sweet, smart boy and I'm just worried (thinking about leaving him in school). My husband and I got married "older" and could be the we know "too much " if that makes sense. Also having them home is stressful at times since we're their teachers, parents, chefs, clean up crew etc while I'm trying to get house chores done at the same time. So I guess that's where I'm feeling the stress with having them home but feel torn at the thought of sending them to school.
I told the Rav my concerns and he said to have good communication with our kids about how they are doing, what goes on in school so if something happens they'll tell us. He said we can't protect them forever, they need to be among society and see chutzpadik kids and learn right from wrong otherwise they'll have a rude awakening when they get older and are forced into the world. That makes total sense. Haven't discussed seriously with my husband yet bc I know he really doesn't want to send them to school. Any thoughts after I clarified some things??


I agree with the rav. And if your stressed it’s not good for the kids to be home a whole day either.
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amother




Plum
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 12:41 pm
Op your question was -
How accurate?
My answer is -
Very accurate.

There are exceptions. If you live in a place where there are no other jewish families you might have no choice. Barring extreme circumstances don't do this to your kids. The social aspect of school is as essential as the educational aspect. Don't deprive them of the life lessons they'll gain at school and the joy and fun of making friends. If you think you and dh are great teachers save your energy for helping with homework. There will be plenty of opportunities for you to be involved in teaching them.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post Fri, May 07 2021, 7:28 pm
Everyone’s advice doesn’t really work here. For all the posters who say not to worry, there are other social interactions, so the kids will be ok. The op doesn’t want that. She doesn’t want her kids exposed. If you don’t want exposure to kids who you feel will influence your children then everyone’s advice makes no sense.
Basically, you want to cut off all social interaction, with other kids because they’re not as frum.
Honestly op, this all sounds a little off. If that’s where you chose to live, embrace it. I would not segregate my family that way. I would move to a like minded community or embrace diversity.
My family is b”h as yeshivish as they come. Even with their exposure to all types of Jews, my children are really farfrumt. Maybe it’s because we are strong and comfortable in who we are. I look at it as a plus.
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KeeGay




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, May 09 2021, 2:09 am
If you're concerned that homeschooling will deprive them from learning social skills, would you take in another 2 children into your 'homeschool'?

Hatzlacha!
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amother




Violet
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 5:25 am
someone related to me thought they could do it better.
their child (now adult) is totally socially off.
male siblings who did go to school (they realized that they can't teach gemara etc)
-totally normal
I'm sure there are more factors but this is my anecdotal experience.
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amother




Snowflake
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 5:49 am
My experience with adults who who were homeschooled as children is that they have basic social skills, but don't know how to deal with the opinions of others. They're often intellectually arrogant, because no one's ever challenged their ideas.

In your case, you're certainly not going to be able to shield your children from everything forever. What you can do is make sure that they are comfortable sharing their experiences with you. So long as they know that you have their backs, they will be ok.
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amother




Violet
 

Post Wed, Jun 16 2021, 5:59 am
amother [ Snowflake ] wrote:
My experience with adults who who were homeschooled as children is that they have basic social skills, but don't know how to deal with the opinions of others. They're often intellectually arrogant, because no one's ever challenged their ideas.

In your case, you're certainly not going to be able to shield your children from everything forever. What you can do is make sure that they are comfortable sharing their experiences with you. So long as they know that you have their backs, they will be ok.


yes! so true! this person will not listen to logic or reason if it conflicts with their opinions. It can be so frustrating to speak to them. I will add that they married someone who also was socially off and it was a disaster for so many reasons. They had no negotiating skills and to this day are in constant conflict with the ex and messing up their kid too.
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