Some Hashkafah teachers mess up kids.................

chaylizi

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 4:40 pm

because probably some parents think it's a good educational tool. Also why do teachers hit kids, molest them, embarrass the living daylights out of them until they refuse to go back to that class, punish them in uneducationally sound & inappropriate ways? B/c they're the teachers & unless someone stops them or goes to a principal to say something is inappropriate- nothing will change. Discussing something on imamother is not the forum to get things done on- it's just to discuss it. Action is also needed, not just talk.

mumoo

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 5:39 pm

letsbehonest wrote:

Cute- no one wants to be the rabblerouser parent!

Who wouldn't rouse more than rabble if this was happening to their child:

Quote:

teachers hit kids, molest them, embarrass the living daylights out of them until they refuse to go back to that class, punish them in uneducationally sound & inappropriate ways

su7kids

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 6:43 pm

Ruchel wrote:

isn't that 12 months?

You are an Ovel for 12 months, but only a real Rasha (bad person) would need all 12 months, so we stop saying Kaddish at 11 months, but you're still in mourning until the 12 months is up.

peach

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 6:53 pm

I did not read the entire thread, but I was horrified by what I did read. I went to a Bais Yaakov school, and NONE of my teachers ever threatened about gehenom or spoke like some of the quoted teachers her. This is absolutely horrifying.

Crayon210

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 6:54 pm

Ruchel wrote:

marina wrote:

I would take my child out of that school the next day, if any of these things were said to him or her. Sickness.

you may have a hard time finding a Jewish school where it never happens...

I don't remember hearing anything like this growing up.

Atali

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 6:55 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

marina wrote:

I would take my child out of that school the next day, if any of these things were said to him or her. Sickness.

you may have a hard time finding a Jewish school where it never happens...

I don't remember hearing anything like this growing up.

I also didn't, and I didn't go to a Lubavitch school either (I went to an out of town Litvish school)

bigdeal

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:01 pm

How about we NOT generalize here?
Bais Yakov of BP ( which by the way even mentioning the name is loshon hara- since look what some ppl have said) has 100s of students per grade and about eighteen teachers in each grade ( about eight parellel classes)
so maybe One or TWo teachers ( or three ) said comments like that- but newsflash- you will find these teachers to exist in many schools. Every person will consider "middle of the road" something else.... and I also dont think tthat the mother who posted about lubavitch NEVEr mentioning Gehenom is right either. There is a happy medium of chinuch and sometimes it can be a TEACHEr and not the SCHOOLS views ( in that case that can be discussed...)
In either way, it takes a lot of smarts and siata dishmaya to be able to give over a perfect balance of chinuch..... so lets not knock the system- Ok???? ( unless of course you are gonna DO something about it)

Imaonwheels

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:08 pm

I was frum for years befopre I knew there was such an idea to do mitzvas to keep out of gehinom or nab a corner lot in olam haba. I was always taught that the goal is to love Him and want Him and not His olam haba and Gan Eden.

Hashkafa I call the class of the opinion of the teacher that he has no source for. We don't jhave a class called hashkafa because the more you learn the more the proper attitude becomes clear. And when they come to it on their own then it stays with them. I could see it being difficult, though, in circles where a woman's lack of learning is a badge of honor.

gryp

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:10 pm

Quote:

and I also dont think tthat the mother who posted about lubavitch NEVEr mentioning Gehenom is right either. There is a happy medium of chinuch and sometimes it can be a TEACHEr and not the SCHOOLS views ( in that case that can be discussed...)

Since you are in favor of a happy medium, do you tell your kids that they'll go to Gehinnom if they don't follow the Torah?

Does anyone here tell that to their kids? We keep Shabbos so we don't go to Gehinnom. We eat kosher so we don't go to Gehinnom. We are tznius so we don't go to Gehinnom. Anyone here do that?

chavamom

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:19 pm

The "be cool now go to gehinom later" sentiment reminds me of the Baptist neighbors that I grew up next to. Everything was about "the fires of hell". B'H, I've rarely been exposed to this attitude in Yiddishkeit. (I am sort of shock

that someone thinks BY of BP is middle of the road though LOL

)

amother

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:28 pm

Wow, I'm a convert who grew up in the so-called Bible Belt (named only after their fake version of the Bible) and I never dreamed that Jews talked like this...sounds like the fundamentalists...(after I became frum I did hear some talk like this, but not from people I knew)

I remember a sign on the road that said "Hell is not just a curse word!"

LOL

bigdeal

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:34 pm

GR wrote:

Quote:

HEY
I said theres a happy medium
everyone need to know the concept of an avera and its reprecussions- at times we serve Hashem out of love and at times its out of FEAR ( like loshon hara- big temptation- but knowing Im gonna burn for that might help make it a lttle easier to keep quiet...) Yes, a happy medium... but you cant go around telling your kids that everything is about simcha- because sometimes they might trangress and be blinded by the simcha... so yea sometimes its outta love and sometimes outta fear....

Atali

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:38 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

What about teaching them that aveiros separate a person from Hashem?

Yes, but schar and onesh is one of the 13 Ikkrim, and kids (at a certain age, not three year olds) need to know that the concept exists.

Not to be threatened with gehenom, but to be given the knowledge that Hashem rewards those who do mitzvos and punishes those who do aveiros.

chaylizi

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:40 pm

admittedly one has to be mechanech their children. but I really don't think that teaching them so young about gehinnom is the way to go. Ok maybe in high school it's appropriate to approach the subject. but how about we can't do that because Hashem said no, or even we can't do that because it makes Hashem angry? Can't we teach the concept that we have to do right and not wrong without teaching little kids about burning in gehinnom?

Atali

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 7:46 pm

chanaroch wrote:

I agree completely (except I would bring it up earlier than high school) and yes, of course seperation from Hashem is a big enough punishment, but it is not the only thing Judaism has to say on the subject, and I don't believe in only teaching children the "pleasent" parts of yiddishkiet.

In fact, I think that teaching the concept of schar and onesh could be comforting. It instills belief that Hashem runs the world and that Hashem doesn't just allow evil to go unpunished.

Note: I said teaching the concept, not threatening.

chaylizi

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 8:16 pm

Ok how about we can't do that because if we do Hashem will give us a punishment. Just like Mommy and Tatty do when you don't listen. I am not disagreeing with you- but my oldest is 5. So we aren't up to advanced parenting yet. I for one like my Rav's way of dealing with it in high school. That it is a precious opportunity given to us by Hashem to cleanse ourselves of all the aveiros done during our lifetime. Because really isn't that better than- ok so and so has more aveiros than mitzvos- no gan eden for him. and by the way anyone who threatens my kid in school with burning in gehinnom is going to hear from me. really quickly, loudly & succinctly. I have zero tolerance for that kind of thing. at least if that is a teacher's MO they should present all the sides and not just the part that makes kids wet their pants from fear.

gold21

Mon, Mar 24 2008, 8:49 pm

I don't either remember that much about Gehinnom being taught,and went to typical Bais Yaakov school.

But underneath everything that was taught was a thread of negativity... You must do such-and-such because to do otherwise would be bad and you would be a bummy bad girl.... I am writing you into my Black Book. Anyone whose name is in this book will never get a good reference from me for seminary or shidduchim ....Screaming (yes, SCREAMING) at girls until they are sobbing and terrified, for stupid misdemeanors such as wearing knee socks instead of tights or having shoes with platforms deemed to be too high etc...Negativity was the crux of the school sytem.

I really did not like high school. That is because I am not a robot and do not want to be made into one through the use of fear tactics.

Whatever.

I hope things improve...though I doubt it.

I think out-of-town schools are somewhat better though.

And chanaroch, sweet dreams and good luck. The principal of my school was totally confident and would not give a hoot if a parent disagreed with something that was done inappropriately...If you don't like it here, leave....
Maybe was just my school like that, but dunno really..

Last edited by gold21 on Mon, Mar 24 2008, 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total