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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
NeonOrange
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 Mon, Jun 14 2021, 8:43 am
My six year old calls me the worst meanest mommy when I don’t let him do xxx. I don’t think chutzpah at this age is unusual.
I do think you should say yes whenever you can, ie to the toy.
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tp3
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:07 am
I feel like "chutzpah" is used like the word "apikores."
A child who is learning to formulate thoughts, opinions, and speech is not being chutzpahdik. Just as an unlearned person cannot be considered an apikores no matter how many times he says "there is no G-d."
If you punish a child who is learning to think and speak, then you will sabotage his future thinking and speaking processes by shutting him down. Just as if you punish an unlearned person for proclaiming his disbelief, you will ruin his appetite for learning more, and he will lose the opportunity to challenge his own shallow opinions.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:21 am
Strongly disagree TP3.
Children must be taught how to exoress themselves respectfully.
OP when your DD is in a good mood teach her to say "when you tell me no I feel so angry / upset."
And OP can offer empathy " yes it is so hard to go to bed when you want to continue playing. But you need your sleep to stay healthy..."
If you dont teach kids how to remain civil when angry, when they are young, they will grow up to be abusers ch""v
It is not like expressing honest disbelief in
G-D. DD only calls OP weirdo when told "no".
It is to punish Mother for saying No.
Name Calling is abuse Ona'as Devorim and
NEVER excusable.
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tp3
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:32 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | Strongly disagree TP3.
Children must be taught how to exoress themselves respectfully.
OP when your DD is in a good mood teach her to say "when you tell me no I feel so angry / upset."
And OP can offer empathy " yes it is so hard to go to bed when you want to continue playing. But you need your sleep to stay healthy..."
If you dont teach kids how to remain civil when angry, when they are young, they will grow up to be abusers ch""v |
They can only be taught to speak respectfully after they've learned to speak at all.
If you stunt their speech and thought progress, it may take them decades to recover it. It is devastating to a child's soul to be shut down like that.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:37 am
| tp3 wrote: | They can only be taught to speak respectfully after they've learned to speak at all.
If you stunt their speech and thought progress, it may take them decades to recover it. It is devastating to a child's soul to be shut down like that. |
A 6 y.o. is not a 2 y.o. The DD knows how to speak. Now she must learn not to be abusive when angry. There are respectful ways to express anger frustration etc.
If children are allowed to be abusive it can take them decades to learn to control anger and express respectfully. or NEVER learn. ch"v.
Can lead to divorce abusing spouse and children.
Children must learn respectful communication for their own good, not for parents sake.
Last edited by #BestBubby on Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:43 am
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In my opinion, a 6 year old doesn't know what chutzpah means. She probably hears these words in school and repeats them. I don't think they realize that they're being disrespectful. When my kids say "mom you're so mean" I respond with "why do you think I'm mean?" which usually gets them to tell me what's bothering them. Or when they say something not nice I say "lets think together how we can say this in a nicer way."
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:45 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | | A 6 y.o. is not a 2 y.o. The DD knows how to speak. Now she must learn not to be abusive when angry. There are respectful ways to express anger frustration etc. |
I don't think 6 year olds realize when they’re talking disrespectful, especially when they're upset and trying to feel understood. A 6 year old talking disrespectful is not abusive. I think it's age appropriate. We need to let our kids express themselves instead of shutting them up and then we can talk to them about coming up with a nicer way of saying things.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:52 am
| amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | | I don't think 6 year olds realize when they’re talking disrespectful, especially when they're upset and trying to feel understood. A 6 year old talking disrespectful is not abusive. I think it's age appropriate. We need to let our kids express themselves instead of shutting them up and then we can talk to them about coming up with a nicer way of saying things. |
OP says DD only calls her weirdo when told No.
DD definitely knows this is hurtfull.
Agree children should learn to express anger in a nicer respectful way.
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 9:54 am
OP, there is a lot of good advice here, even though some of it is contradicting others. You may have to try some of each in order to find out what works for your child.
Whether you use gentle boundaries or firm ones, something needs to be established. She will fight back at first, but she will be SO much happier once she realizes that she can't boss you around. She needs to know that you are the adult in the house, while feeling that you are loving at the same time.
You can show empathy, and say "I understand that you want X right now, but it's not a good idea because..." or "We can do X for Y number of minutes", etc. Know the difference between negotiating and cooperating. You can work out a solution together, but that doesn't mean you've "lost the battle" or that you are giving in. You always need to win at the end, but she doesn't need to know that. 
Please, stop yelling at her. I know that she knows exactly how to push your buttons. Every kid has a special sense for that. Right now, she's experimenting to see just how hard she can push, and what she can get away with. If she doesn't hit a wall of resistance, she's going to feel insecure because she doesn't know where the edge is.
I told DD about driving on a road with lots of twists and turns, really high up in the mountains. What if there was no marker to tell you when you were going off of the edge and would fall way down into the valley?
What if there was only a string to tell you where the edge was? Would you feel safe to drive? What about the steel guard rails? They keep your car from falling, but you can still look around and see how beautiful everything is. You feel safe because you know exactly where you are supposed to drive. What if there was a huge brick wall on both sides of the road. You'd know where you were supposed to go, but you also wouldn't have any fun and it would be boring.
Your job is to be the steel guard rail. You want your child to enjoy life, and be able to look around as much as she pleases, but she needs to stay in her lane. Yelling and giving arbitrary punishments is like building a brick wall.
DD is a very visual learner, and she could see immediately the logic in what I was saying. (She also only listened to logic. If something didn't make sense to her, she had a much harder time accepting it. She's still like that.)
"Parenting Kids With Love and Logic" is the best parenting book I've ever read in my life. The "Parenting Teens" book is also amazing. It takes away 99% of the power struggles in parenting, and builds closer bonds with your kids. You can help your kids make better decisions, by brainstorming with them, and letting them express themselves. This makes them invested in a good outcome, and takes all the fun out of fighting with you.
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:00 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | OP says DD only calls her weirdo when told No.
DD definitely knows this is hurtfull.
Agree children should learn to express anger in a nicer respectful way. |
My daughter called me a weirdo 1 time. She said "mommy is a weirdo" I replied "what does weirdo mean?" She said that she doesn't know! So I explained to her what it means and it's not nice to call people like that and I didn't hear the word again. Many times kids repeat words they hear and they don't even know what it means.
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:07 am
| amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | | My daughter called me a weirdo 1 time. She said "mommy is a weirdo" I replied "what does weirdo mean?" She said that she doesn't know! So I explained to her what it means and it's not nice to call people like that and I didn't hear the word again. Many times kids repeat words they hear and they don't even know what it means. |
When DD was 6, she got mad at me one day, and left a note on my computer keyboard that said "Fuk Yu".
I asked her what it meant, and she said "I don't know, but Chani says it all the time!"
Chani (not her real name) has lots of big brothers, who are pretty wild. The school says nothing, because Chani's parents are HUGE donors to the building fund. 
I told DD that is was a very bad thing to say, like calling someone the N word. She never did it again.
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tp3
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:14 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | A 6 y.o. is not a 2 y.o. The DD knows how to speak. Now she must learn not to be abusive when angry. There are respectful ways to express anger frustration etc.
If children are allowed to be abusive it can take them decades to learn to control anger and express respectfully. or NEVER learn. ch"v.
Can lead to divorce abusing spouse and children.
Children must learn respectful communication for their own good, not for parents sake. |
If we all stayed at a two year old level than yes we know how to speak. Children are developing for many more years after age two. They need time to learn new speech and thinking skills at every new stage of maturity.
Respect is not something learned by force and by punishments.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:17 am
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But do you at least agree that respect must be taught and that abuse (name calling weirdo) should not be acceptable?
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:17 am
| FranticFrummie wrote: | When DD was 6, she got mad at me one day, and left a note on my computer keyboard that said "Fuk Yu".
I asked her what it meant, and she said "I don't know, but Chani says it all the time!"
Chani (not her real name) has lots of big brothers, who are pretty wild. The school says nothing, because Chani's parents are HUGE donors to the building fund.
I told DD that is was a very bad thing to say, like calling someone the N word. She never did it again. |
 I'm laughing because we had the same incident with my brother. He told my dad F you. Instead of dad getting all angry, he asked my brother what it means. Of course brother had no idea. After exploring how bad it is, my brother went outside to play and we all burst out laughing like crazy. It was hilarious.
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:19 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | | But do you at least agree that respect must be taught and that abuse (name calling weirdo) should not be acceptable? |
A 6 year old name calling isn't abuse. A 6 year old isn't abusive.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:21 am
| amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | | My daughter called me a weirdo 1 time. She said "mommy is a weirdo" I replied "what does weirdo mean?" She said that she doesn't know! So I explained to her what it means and it's not nice to call people like that and I didn't hear the word again. Many times kids repeat words they hear and they don't even know what it means. |
Per OP DD only calls mother weirdo when mother says no.
This proves DD knows weirdo is hurtful even if she doesnt know exact meaning. Thats abuse.
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:23 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | Per OP DD only calls mother weirdo when mother says no.
This proves DD knows weirdo is hurtful even if she doesnt know exact meaning. Thats abuse. |
Still not abuse. A 6 year old being age appropriate disrespectful is not abuse.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:23 am
| amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | | A 6 year old name calling isn't abuse. A 6 year old isn't abusive. |
If 6 y.o. is not taught not to name call when upset she will be abusive as adult.
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:25 am
| amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | | A 6 year old name calling isn't abuse. A 6 year old isn't abusive. |
Exactly.
I found that DD got a bit mouthy when she was going into a growth spurt. Her brain was developing new pathways. She would also have irregular sleep patterns (that made her grumpy), she got fussy about food, picked fights for no reason, complained about everything, and her clothes suddenly got too tight.
(Anyone who has a teenage boy, who wakes up one morning and finds their pants an inch shorter than they were the night before, will understand.)
As soon as she got past that hurdle, with gentle guidance and boundaries, she'd be the happies kid on the block - until the next growth spurt. Parenting never stops, it's a constant action, and you have to adjust on the fly.
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#BestBubby
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Mon, Jun 14 2021, 10:29 am
How many times have we heard Imas cry on this site about the cruel things their DH says to them when he is angry???
Permissive parenting is creating abusers.
Children have to be taught how to communicate respectfully even when angry.
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