S/o Speech paycheck- how to help girls know the options?

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:08 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:
[quote="amother [ Royalblue These girls approach work initially as an extension of school in some ways -- something they are doing an because it's the next step in the pipeline, and just a place to follow authority and silently resent it. Only difference is that now they are earning a paycheck.
These offices open exploit the girls with low salaries, expect them to work Erev yt and chol hamoed, and take advantage of them in other ways. The jobs are repetitive and unstimulating.

..and many are terrible employees due to this immaturity and lack of experience. The treat their jobs like HS.
As a professional in a heavy customer interactive business, my agency hires lots of these post HS workers for office jobs: We have about 15 right now. The lack of professionalism and work ethic is outrageous. I'd say 1/3 of these post HS grads are ready for professional life at 17/18. It impacts our clients and our work environment.

I have had to restructure my department not to rely on office support in general.

Sorry for the divergence, but this is very frustrating.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:10 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

[quote="amother [ Royalblue These girls approach work initially as an extension of school in some ways -- something they are doing an because it's the next step in the pipeline, and just a place to follow authority and silently resent it. Only difference is that now they are earning a paycheck.
These offices open exploit the girls with low salaries, expect them to work Erev yt and chol hamoed, and take advantage of them in other ways. The jobs are repetitive and unstimulating.

..and many are terrible employees due to this immaturity and lack of experience. The treat their jobs like HS.
As a professional in a heavy customer interactive business, my agency hires lots of these post HS workers for office jobs: We have about 15 right now. The lack of professionalism and work ethic is outrageous. I'd say 1/3 of these post HS grads are ready for professional life at 17/18. It impacts our clients and our work environment.

I have had to restructure my department not to rely on office support in general.

Sorry for the divergence, but this is very frustrating.[/quote]
Not surprised. That's why I said I don't see a true internship for high schoolers through a BY school being realistic.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:19 am

I had time to choose a career. Actually started OT school at 21 and finished at 25. Part timed for various reasons. Although I knew what I was getting into, I still didn't realize what its like to work as many hours to make the most money, to complete tons of session notes, billing problems, reports, and maintain a normal household for my many growing children kh. All the research in the world wont tell you how intense college is, how your job is, how marriage is, how parenting is, how anything is really. My parents and I did thorough research regarding my profession. Certain aspects I love, and certain aspects I don't. Maybe I have too many things on my plate.

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:22 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

Maybe I have too many things on my plate.

Ding ding!

Yes, you do. The expectations on frum women are insane.

I think it'd be possible if my married lived in my house for 3 years. I don't want that bc it feels so emotionally unhealthy, but financial support, making shabbos and meals, managing a house, iyh child care, all that is impossible in a nuclear family situation. It takes years to figure this out.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:44 am

amother [ PlumPink ] wrote:

No BY school is going to encourage their girls to pursue all kinds of options. If you expect this to happen, your daughters are in the wrong schools.

My BY high school had a career event with a wide range of professional frum women. Medical, education, therapies, various office jobs (accountant, etc).
So if your school isn't willing to do this, and you want a school that does, then you're picking the wrong schools but it isn't because they're BY.

amother

Yellow

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:49 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Another reason to advocate for girls to start dating a bit older.

amother

Chicory

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:54 am

I have a good friend who is a new slp.
Her mother never got a degree and always felt bad about it, and really really pushed her daughter into this field.
She had her shadow a popular slp who owns an agency who is raking it in... Neglecting the fact that she pays the slps not so amazingly...
At least she saw that the job itself was enjoyable to her.

My friend enjoys her job, but considering how much time and money age spent in the degree, it's very hard for her to find decent jobs, and the pay isn't too great.

So here's a story of a girl who went in with her eyes wide open, supposedly, and it still didn't help. I feel bad for her.

Friend has a sister who just came out of seminary.... The mother will never admit that slp isn't the most incredible career ever, but also isn't pushing her like she did with older sister

amother

Yellow

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 8:55 am

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

This is the sort of event my school had. Maybe not that many medical jobs, though I think there was a pediatrician there and jobs such as a sonagrapher etc

It didn't really make a difference, most girls didn't feel that strongly as to what they wanted to do (and for those that did, it ended up changing within the next couple years). Most girls gravitated to the women talking about flexibility and part time jobs. Which happen to be in the therapies, and which they probably would have done anyway, career event or no career event. Same for the mathematically inclined girls who anyway would have gone into accounting.

I think one girl out of my grade went to medical school and it had nothing to do with this career event. She decided later, after seminary. She was also ok with getting married at an older age, as I recall at 26 or 27.

imanotmommy

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 9:03 am

If you have girls this age, and the school/community doesn't have enough education on the topic, maybe get together and arrange your own event. If you have a virtual event, maybe Imas with different jobs would volunteer their time to speak.
Jobs are different by location, but an event for girls in (or planning to live in) NY and NJ could help a lot of people, it sounds like.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 9:08 am

I think it’s a good idea to talk to our children from when they are young about their interests. Knowing their personality and strengths and weaknesses, I think it is possible to discuss from High school age. My mom suggested I become a nurse when I was in high school (this was before it was in style for frum to go into nursing) and I absolutely love what I do. All my siblings went into different fields based on what we were interested in. I discuss with my own children who are 15 and down what they would like to do, not official discussions but for example my son who is great at math and really enjoys it - we will discuss what an actuary does and another son who is phenomenal at lego and designing different custom lego buildings we will talk about architects etc

amother

Magnolia

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 9:13 am

I’m not sure girls are realistic about earning potential. And want everything - part time and lots of days off and max salary.

I think a college graduate who spends 6 yrs getting speech therapy degree or really any 4yr degree wouldn’t expect to get part time job right way making max salary. . Or make over 50k at first job if not working full time.

I find frum girls want to make to dollar immediately with quick degrees working minimum hours.

This is every job. Girls with code academy certificates want 100K salary at first job working part time with chol hamoed off. In the real world (out of NY) it rarely happens.

I don’t think diff degree would matter.
There are few jobs you start at max salary with so much flexibility.

amother

Papayawhip

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 9:27 am

I talk to my kids (boys and girls) starting from when they're young teenagers about what they think they want to do. We discuss their strengths, weaknesses and talents. I encourage them to speak to people in the field and shadow/try it out depending on what it is. This is not the school's job. This is a parents role. You know your own child best.

My kids also understand that there's nothing wrong with career changes later on. I changed careers twice. I still use what I studied originally since the skills are useful .(obviously if one of them would choose something that needed 10+ years of schooling like medical school this isn't as feasible)

My oldest daughter is currently doing in internship in her field after 2 semesters of college. She is getting to do all the worst parts of what her future job will be like (since that's what the interns get to do) and she's loving it. If she didn't then she knows it would be perfectly fine to switch majors.

I think a big issue is that the girls are pushed to go to quick programs where they have to decide 100% what they want to do before they start. Even though my daughter knows what she wants she's at an actual college and will get a more well rounded education and degree that will help her even if she should decide to change careers one day. She's not just getting career training. Yes. I know she won't be done in a year and a half. It will take her longer to finish but it's worth it as it's the best thing for her future. She's also working part time while in school full time. She finds jobs that will help make her resume more attractive to future employers and also makes her some money.

We're ok with her dating when she's ready and have told her if she gets married when in school we'd be there to help as much as possible until she's done. It helps that she's looking for a college educated/professional young man so we're not talking about long term "support". This is an investment in our child's future.

amother

Nemesia

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 10:32 am

amother [ Papayawhip ] wrote:

I know she won't be done in a year and a half. It will take her longer to finish but it's worth it as it's the best thing for her future. She's also working part time while in school full time. She finds jobs that will help make her resume more attractive to future employers and also makes her some money.

We're ok with her dating when she's ready and have told her if she gets married when in school we'd be there to help as much as possible until she's done. It helps that she's looking for a college educated/professional young man so we're not talking about long term "support". This is an investment in our child's future.

That's great that your daughter has that assurance. It makes a huge difference. Most parents would love to be able to provide that.

However, reality is, most parents can't, therefore the girls don't have the luxury of that assurance, and that's why the rush. Either the issue is that of girls knowing they have to prepare to be the breadwinner at the start of marriage going forward, or they feel they must be ready to be married in their very early 20s (or a combination of those).
Take away either of those factors and you don't have the pressing issues expressed on this thread.

amother

Snapdragon

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 10:47 am

amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:

You don't need a frum organization. You need girls to talk to women in different fields. Organize a career day at your daughter's high school, and invite women who are willing to be open about what their jobs entail and what salaries look like in the field. I know plenty of women who'd be happy to talk about their careers and challenges. If a high school doesn't want to invite a broad range of women, you have a red flag right there.

The girls high school where I live already does this. It's arranged by the school guidance counselor.
I'm sure many girls highschools already do the same.

amother

Denim

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 10:58 am

amother [ Nemesia ] wrote:

The system is very messed up. We tell our boys not to worry at all for preparing for their future as someone else will take care of it. Then we tell our girls that you better figure everything out asap cause you're going to bear the full burden of the household for the next x amount of years.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 11:17 am

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Truly the million dollar question.
One part of the problem is that the girls don't have the luxury of the first couple of years of college to figure out what they want, like the average student does before deciding on a major. If girls felt they had more time before beginning the dating/marriage stage, that would take away a huge amount of societal pressure. I'm not advocating for girls waiting to date till their mid 20s or anything. But what's wrong with 21 or 22 being the socially acceptable age?

I really think it's this. I got my BS in Touro in two years. I was laser focused and worked hard and got into grad school. As I was nearing the end though I started doubting myself. It took time exposure and maturity to know what I really wanted.

I finished up and started grad school but my heart wasn't in it and I dropped out. I'm currently working in an office and not using my bachelors at all.

Now I'm thinking of a pivot and going back to what I really want to do, but it will mean a four-year degree in a secular program. That amount of time is a luxury I'm not sure I can afford. I wish I had done it right in the first place, but there's no way I could have known at the time. And as a fairly sheltered 18 year old I don't think I was ready for a secular college.

dancingqueen

Sun, Jun 20 2021, 11:24 am

amother [ Magnolia ] wrote:

It seems like the same kind of magical thinking occurs with the boys too. That they can just leave kollel at 30 and then with no further education, easily land a job with a 6 figure starting salary.