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What is the job of a parent- discussion
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:26 pm
Can we start a discussion on what people believe is the role of parents?

My parents think it’s their job to “make sure” their children keep all mitzvos and halachos. This means they will constantly remind us about our tznius and wouldn’t let us leave the house if we weren’t properly covering our knees. They did this same method for all their daughters, and we each turned out differently.

I personally think a parent should model/show/teach/guide, but not force or control.

Also, what about on an emotional level. What is the job of parents? Should they be their child’s friend, or have more boundaries.

I know we’ll get a variety of responses and I’m open to hearing and learning from y’all.
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amother




Seablue
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:40 pm
The following quote always resonates: There are only two lasting bequests we can hope to give our children. One of these is roots, the other, wings.
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amother




Seablue
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:41 pm
I think my job as a parent is giving them skills to be the best person they can be.
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thunderstorm




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:44 pm
To raise your children in a way that they are emotionally healthy and physically healthy so that they could be fully functional independent adults when they reach adulthood.
A frum parent will also imbue the ways of HaShem by modeling it for their children, not by policing their children.
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amother




cornflower
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:46 pm
Teach them about Hashem and his Torah
Protect them physically and emotionally
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amother




DarkGreen
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 7:46 pm
Our job is to give our children tools for life so that they grow up to be adults we are proud to know.

Parents can be friends in some ways, but not in all ways. Friends don't have the same kind of authority that a child needs from a parent, and children must not be expected to provide the emotional support their parents need. But when the children grow up and leave home, their parents can be their special best friends who used to wipe their bums. Wink

I agree with modeling a Torah lifestyle over policing it. We must be careful. And we must always love our children even if they choose an alternative derech.
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amother




Brass
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:00 pm
[quote="amother [ DarkGreen ]"]Our job is to give our children tools for life so that they grow up to be adults we are proud to know.

Parents can be friends in some ways, but not in all ways. Friends don't have the same kind of authority that a child needs from a parent, and children must not be expected to provide the emotional support their parents need. But when the children grow up and leave home, their parents can be their special best friends who used to wipe their bums. Wink

I agree with modeling a Torah lifestyle over policing it. We must be careful. And we must always love our children even if they choose an alternative derech.[/quote


I like this answer. Thank you !!
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:03 pm
I know this is rare, but there are those parents that kick children out of their home if they are no longer frum or engage in dangerous behaviors.

There are parents, like mine, that mean well and want what’s best for their children, but have a skewed view of how things should be done.

Then there are those that really live and let live.

And all the rest in between.

So maybe I’ll ask this way- how would you approach a situation in which your daughter past age 12 doesn’t dress modestly/following halacha.

As a daughter I hated being told to pull down my skirt, and frankly it made me want to wear even shorter. So how should this be approached?
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amother




DarkGreen
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:06 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I know this is rare, but there are those parents that kick children out of their home if they are no longer frum or engage in dangerous behaviors.

There are parents, like mine, that mean well and want what’s best for their children, but have a skewed view of how things should be done.

Then there are those that really live and let live.

And all the rest in between.

So maybe I’ll ask this way- how would you approach a situation in which your daughter past age 12 doesn’t dress modestly/following halacha.

As a daughter I hated being told to pull down my skirt, and frankly it made me want to wear even shorter. So how should this be approached?


I don't have kids that old yet. And I didn't grow up frum. But while I think about a tentative answer, I have a question for you.

Did you want to wear your skirt short for any reason besides not being allowed?
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amother




Daphne
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:

So maybe I’ll ask this way- how would you approach a situation in which your daughter past age 12 doesn’t dress modestly/following halacha.

So how should this be approached?

I wouldn't criticize it. I might say something like : I love your skirt !

I actually do say it.

Please don't throw tomatoes at me.

I personally think it's my job to be responsive to my children and to accompany them as an equal as we move through life together. We walk side by side.

My views are not the norm, but bh my children and I have a good relationship.

I learned this on my own bones and from the research: ordering kids around, telling them how to behave, interferes with the attachment. And a healthy attachment is the one thing that helps children/adults weather the storms of life.
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amother




Lightcoral
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:16 pm
I would address the root of the issue, why do they want to do something other than what you want? Addressing the why will probably yield better results than just criticizing. I think complimenting it is sending very mixed messages. Once you know the why you can come up with compromises, or solve the problem etc...

Edited to further expand why does your daughter want to wear shorter skirts, is it because she's copying a friend, thinks it's cooler, wants to have more control over her wardrobe, doesn't believe knees need to be covered etc.... you discuss it with her, calmly and lovingly and figure out something that will make both of you happy.
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amother




Daphne
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:23 pm
amother [ Lightcoral ] wrote:
I would address the root of the issue, why do they want to do something other than what you want?

Is it your perspective that children's job is to do what their parents want them to do?
Not saying it's right or wrong. Just want to be sure I'm understanding you.
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amother




DarkGreen
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 8:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
So maybe I’ll ask this way- how would you approach a situation in which your daughter past age 12 doesn’t dress modestly/following halacha.

As a daughter I hated being told to pull down my skirt, and frankly it made me want to wear even shorter. So how should this be approached?


Upon further reflection:

I don't know, OP. I am also curious. I know someone who enforced tznius strongly with her only daughter, and she left and developed her own style. Could a different method have yielded different results? I don't know. I think another complicating factor could be younger sisters who are watching.
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amother




Honey
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 9:20 pm
There are lots of people on imamother who do more than "model", and if you disagree with them, you're called a bad person and judgemental.

They refuse to let their kids play with friends whose parents have smartphones.
They refuse to let their kid go to a "bad" school, even though they didn't get into every other school there is in Lakewood.
They refuse to let their kid play with that friend, go to *that* camp.
They refuse to invite people over who have bad tznius, even family members.
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amother




Lightcoral
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 9:22 pm
amother [ Daphne ] wrote:
Is it your perspective that children's job is to do what their parents want them to do?
Not saying it's right or wrong. Just want to be sure I'm understanding you.


It's not remotely what I said or implied so no you are not understanding me.
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amother




Lightcoral
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 9:23 pm
amother [ Honey ] wrote:
There are lots of people on imamother who do more than "model", and if you disagree with them, you're called a bad person and judgemental.

They refuse to let their kids play with friends whose parents have smartphones.
They refuse to let their kid go to a "bad" school, even though they didn't get into every other school there is in Lakewood.
They refuse to let their kid play with that friend, go to *that* camp.
They refuse to invite people over who have bad tznius, even family members.


How is this comment helpful or even related to this post?
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 9:52 pm
amother [ DarkGreen ] wrote:
I don't have kids that old yet. And I didn't grow up frum. But while I think about a tentative answer, I have a question for you.

Did you want to wear your skirt short for any reason besides not being allowed?


I wanted to wear my skirts shorter because that’s who I was. Our clothes is our self expression. I didn’t want to be a Bais Yakov girl, and I associated with the more rebellious girls. But even as that stage fizzled out, I still didn’t want such tznius skirts. I didn’t feel like it represented me.

And also, I felt cuter in shorter skirts
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 9:59 pm
In case you want to know, rav Shteiman ztl said if your daughter is wearing a mini skirt and she asks you if you like it you should say yes. She knows she’s doing something wrong, you don’t need to point it out. Better to turn a blind eye.

This was just told to me by someone who I asked the question to IRL
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amother




Daphne
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 10:03 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
In case you want to know, rav Shteiman ztl said if your daughter is wearing a mini skirt and she asks you if you like it you should say yes.


"Yes, I love it!"
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tigerwife




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 30 2021, 10:07 pm
The way I see it, our children our entrusted to us for about 18 years and it’s our responsibility to teach them and protect them. We try to raise them to be emotionally healthy as well as physically healthy. We give them as much education as we can about the world while also giving them problem solving skills for issues their education might not cover. We encourage them so that they will be confident and determined to do the best they can. We teach them empathy and kindness so that they can not only work on themselves but help others and treat others with kindness and respect. We teach them Torah in a positive way and try to facilitate a positive relationship with HaShem, and encourage them to do as many mitzvos as they can. By the time they reach adulthood, they should have the skills and tools for growth and success.

I really hope I can do whatever I wrote.!

Specifically with tznius. I personally like to dress colorfully and interestingly yet modest. I don’t believe tznius means dressing in a uniform way. I want my daughters to see that you can have your own personal style while conforming to Halacha. They are not yet at the age where they are obligated in tznius, though, so I’m not sure yet how I’d react to pushing the boundaries. It does seem to me that attention to the negative is rarely successful.
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