Did any of you know Julia Haart?

amother

Rainbow

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 10:57 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I guess expounding on the weekly parsha just doesn't have the same sensational zing as putting down a fellow Jew, no matter how far off the path they go.

Nobody is discussing how far off Julia went.

Most are discussing the consequences of her Netflix show.

Can you not see a difference?

Also, some are expressing their pain at the feeling of betrayal of a close friend who has exposed their lifestyle and purposely did so in a negative light.

Live and let live. You wanne work on your ahavas yisroel and you think this thread goes against it? That's ok. Keep off and let other participate.

amother

Lightgreen

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 10:59 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

If all of us tried to be better people, and get together to create a better, more positive board, then I think we could make a difference. I know a lot of people are leaving Imamother because of the negativity and bashing on all sides of the aisles.

I guess expounding on the weekly parsha just doesn't have the same sensational zing as putting down a fellow Jew, no matter how far off the path they go.

Sometimes the path to being better people involves processing a hurt. It's not always all la la la. And Talia has hurt some of us. We have a need to express and process this wrong.

No one would be hurting her as a fellow Jew just for going far off the path. It's the fact that she's turned around to hurt us that causes so much pain, and has us up in arms defending ourselves.

amother

Trillium

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 10:59 am

amother [ Rainbow ] wrote:

I have not contributed to threads on this topic.

But whoever dislikes these conversations and should please avoid the threads instead of dictating which threads should be locked.

Rediculous tyranny behaviour.

Agree. We're entitled to discuss any topic.
We can all pm Yael and decide which topic to ban which doesn't please us

thanks

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:01 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

By giving her even more publicity?

People who know nothing about her are now aware of her show, and will be drawn in by curiosity. Everyone who watches will prove to Netflix that shows like this are successful, and will only encourage more.

Every pixel you spend online about this subject, just causes the search engines to go up.

If she is the one committing a Chillul Hashem, we are the ones who are giving her free advertising. Happy now? Banging head

The search engines will also find the outrage and the opposition to her. She is out there, and we cannot remain silent.

Here are two great responses:

Reporter Sandy Eller
https://vinnews.com/2021/07/15.....odox/

Entrepreneur Michla Berlin
https://vinnews.com/2021/07/15.....tter/

Last edited by thanks on Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:03 am

Simple1 wrote:

I totally agree and alluded to that in my next post. But I still think it’s not LH.

Sorry I missed that. I checked the time stamps, and we cross posted. I'm a slow typer.

Maybe, technically it's not mamash LH, but it definitely falls into some gray areas. I still think we can hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Perhaps we should ask our rabbonim if it is permitted to discuss this situation in the tone that many posters are using. The answers could be interesting. I'm open to learning.

amother

Rainbow

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:04 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

That's not for you to decide. Let's all work on our own Yiddishkeit.

amother

Lilac

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:07 am

I hear a lot of pain from posters.

I think shutting them down is wrong.

Where else can they go to express their sorry, disbelief, shock? Try to put the situation in context. Try to understand how this happened.

Are their emotions less valuable? Do they count?

Can you understand ppl can feel betrayed?

thanks

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:08 am

NotInNJMommy wrote:

I think you should learn the halachos. I don't see what lies you are trying to refute and you're preaching to the chooir here anyways.

Read the posts that expose her lies.
Stop preaching until you know all the facts.

I'm not denying that she felt oppressed, but she's lying about the orthodoxy that she grew up in.

Last edited by thanks on Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Catmint

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:09 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Do we also ask rabbonim before we bash chassidim here?
Live and let live needs to be universal.

amother

Birch

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:12 am

amother [ Lightgreen ] wrote:

But she made a TV show to stab us in the back.

She could have just left and lived her life without lying about her past and hurting so many people in the process.

Nope. She doesn't want to just "live her life". She made a TV show for money, influence, and fame. And stabbing the "ultra-orthodox" is good TV

amother

Mustard

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:20 am

causemommysaid wrote:

The people claiming loshon harah don't actually know the halachos. If you learn them regularly (as I do) you would know it's not actually loshon harah.

It would be better not to discuss it but claiming loshon harah is not accurate.

Yup. Not only is it public news, but she married out and is publicly unobservant. Breaking shabbos purposely and publicly already takes you out of the dinim of lashon hara. So it doesn't apply here. Plus, she's actively promoting and encouraging others to leave the Torah life as well. In such cases it actually is a mitzvah to go against her and call out her lies. Same case to be made for the rampant chillul Hashem, not (just) in front of the non jews but in front of other Jews, like my less religious family who want to know how it is that I went to college, etc, and in one case, "if I need help".

And as to the "ahavas yisrael" calls, there's an obligation to go against and even "hate" the (public, defiant) sinner. And "vahavta lrayacha kumocha" is am actual law with parameters and restrictions, not a feel good bumper sticker you can apply as you wish. Turning the other cheek is NOT a Jewish concept.

amother

Chicory

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:21 am

amother [ Aconite ] wrote:

a formerly frum person trashing us on TV is a tragedy in my books. None of this outrage, NONE is about her changing her lifestyle. Whoever keeps bringing that up- you’re gaslighting, no one is focusing on that. It’s all about the tv show and some of you are trying to be so accepting and openminded your brains fell out.

no one has been trashed.

disagreeing with fundamentalist approach to religious observance is not trashing people.

you may not agree with it, and you may not like that opinion.

It's not a personal attack.

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:23 am

thanks wrote:

Read the posts that expose her lies.
Stop preaching until you know all the facts.

I'm not denying that she felt oppressed, but she's lying about the orthodoxy that she grew up in.

I'm not preaching.

There is no need to have a whole thread asking people if they know her and what she's like on the internet, probably not in person either.

You don't have a right to that information or even discussing it.

This thread serves no constructive purpose either because it's inherently not constructive or it's been covered in several active threads already.

number

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:25 am

NotInNJMommy wrote:

She is a public sinner and hilchos lashon hara don’t apply to her. This thread is gossip but it’s not lashon hara. Whether or not it’s constructive doesn’t apply here.

thanks

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:26 am

amother [ Chicory ] wrote:

Those of us that know her and grew up in her circles know that she is lying. Many of us have great careers, and are not viewed as baby makers. We are respected by our husband's, families and the community. I personally have a successful career and worked for NYPD, as well as other major US corporations. She is not coming from an insular society where women do not have these opportunities. Women in her circles are also very fashionably dressed and do not view clothing as body coverings the way she describes. They know more about fashion than the average bergdoff Goodman shopper.
She may not have liked being religious, but that does not excuse the way she portrays it.

amother

Viola

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:32 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

EXACTLY!!! I can’t believe people really think it’s Loshon Hara to talk about her!!!! She’s a public sinner and machati Es harabim!!! And there doesn’t need to b l’toeless!! The rules of LH don’t apply to her period!!!! If u don’t like that ppl r talking about her try to come up with another reason not to talk about her but NOT that it’s LH!!!!!!

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Jul 16 2021, 11:33 am

number wrote:

She is a public sinner and hilchos lashon hara don’t apply to her. This thread is gossip but it’s not lashon hara. Whether or not it’s constructive doesn’t apply here.

Did you get that psak din about this person and this situation specifically?

The halachos are not that straight forward as I've been taught, particularly in this era.

There really needs to be someone well versed in these halachos (not just those re: shmiras haloshon, but also ahavas yisroel, etc.)

Also, context is relevant and consequences are relevant. I've been taught that it is not that easy or common to be able to get around rechilus, LH, or motzi shem ra that the cursory reading of halachah may imply and really one must err on the side of restraint barring getting clear daas torah.