One of my kids is so hard to love....

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:22 pm

amother [ Outerspace ] wrote:

Seems like you hold onto a lot of anger towards parents, as I have noticed this kind of bashing and preaching in a few parenting threads already. It is normal for a mom to want her kid to succeed and be their best and it’s very frustrating if they’re not.
As far as a child owing their parents, a parent cannot demand respect but I believe the Torah does.
And most people want their children to be mentchlich toward everyone including their parents. Not so unreasonable.

This child is still under Bas Mitzvah so at this point, the respect is chinuch. It needs to start with the parent respecting that this child is atypical.

ShishKabob

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:24 pm

Zehava wrote:

Do you perhaps have the wrong idea of what love is? A child doesn’t have to let themselves be loved. You don’t need your child permission to love them. Love just is. A constant from before the child is born.

Of course I know what love is and so does the op. Love means that you do for the person regardless if they reciprocate, regardless if they are appreciative, regardless of anything. Of course I love my children unconditionally. Ok. I guess the word is like. Some of them are more likable than others.
Ok, Zehava! YOU ARE RIGHT!!! Smile

Zehava

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:28 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Love isn’t something you do. Love is something you feel.
Kind of hard to articulate but love is blind. Unconditional love means loving them for their essence and not for anything they do or look like or portray.
Love is wanting what is best for them, wanting them to be happy, at peace, and safe, and everything good.
Love is always being in their corner and having their back.
As someone put it, having kids is like having a part of your heart just walking around out there.

ShishKabob

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:30 pm

Zehava wrote:

I agree with it all. And I also agree that love is something that you do!

amother

Foxglove

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:44 pm

amother [ Milk ] wrote:

She sound a loving mother who is trying to understand and help her child. Mothers are human beings with feelings.

I love this.
OP, you need to start where your feelings are.
you can love your child so much, and still find it hard to enjoy their company.
I have a child like that. I used to feel guilty. but I am human.
yes, kids don't owe me anything, but the kid that's easygoing, warm and reciprocative of the love I show is truthfully more enjoyable to have around.
I realized how much I love my kid last night- I went through something last year, and last night he went through it, and I was like, wow, I would rather go through it then have him go through it.
that's love.
does it mean I always enjoy his company? no!! does it mean I sometimes go batty from him? yes!!
he's a complicated kid. and yes, we have our amazing moments and moments of wanting to bang my head on the wall. that's ok.
it's human and it's feelings and it's fine.
OP, trust me that you love your daughter very very much. she might be difficult and hard to be around but her pain is your pain and you want to help her.

iyar

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 12:58 pm

Zehava wrote:

It’s all there in the title. She find this child hard to love. Not connect. Love. So I’m taking her words at face value.
What she should practically do is not the point here.

What she should practically do is the point here.
OP asked us what to do so the point is we should tell her what to do, not bash her.
Love is all about doing and giving. אהבה comes from the Aramaic root הב - give (according to Rav Dessler and Rav Hirsch). The act of giving plants the feeling of love in our hearts. אהבה is often translated by Targum as רחימו which has a root of רחם - womb, the place of ultimate closeness between mother and child. It’s not just a nebulous feeling we sing songs about.
Reaching out here to find out how to build a loving relationship with her child doesn’t make op a criminal or a bad mother. If anyone has practical suggestions of what she can do that’s great. I’ll bow out because I already said - I’m not the childcare expert here.

amother

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:04 pm

Foxglove, thank you for sharing that. I'm sorry about your kid, but it is so helpful to know this is common.
I have gained so much chizuk from this thread, hearing from other mothers who understand or are going through the same thing.
Thank you all so much for the advice, the love, the chizuk. What I keep hearing is - it's ok if I find a child hard to LIKE. Of course deep down I love her. I just need to try to ignore the things that irk me, and find ways to create common ground, spend quality time together, and express my love to her. Thank you much for all the ideas.

Zehava

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You also need to see her as a human being, separate from you, with her own thoughts, Opinions, and ways of looking at the world. You need to try to look at the world through her eyes, and empathize with her perspective. We all have a basic need to be seen and heard.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Yep. Someone whose parenting I admire a lot, shared once in a casual "Huh" sort of tone, that he didn't like one of his kids very much until they reached a certain age. Probably wouldn't have been great to share this with the kid in question, but for the people who did hear it, it was an interesting comment.

Chayalle

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:28 pm

BTW for a child who loves to read - a great way to spend cozy time together is to read together.
It may sound weird but might be something your DD would enjoy - sitting next to you and both of you reading. It's like quiet and comforting for some kids. My DD enjoys this and told me she missed it while in camp.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:33 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Yes! Me and my husband do this. Sometimes we share passages out loud but that only works if the other person is willing and ready to be receptive.

Last edited by BrisketBoss on Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:35 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I love this idea! Thank you chayalle!

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

I call this the cave man brain. Their brain is in fight-flight- survival mode. Hygiene and fashion doesn’t matter when your life is on the line, there’s no time for social niceties, food gets shoveled in , and you pack on the carbs because who knows when your next meal will be. Brain tells body to hold on to every extra calorie for the same reason. Brain is not able to engage in imaginative play, feel empathy or love or other upper brain kind of stuff because it is too busy worrying about surviving, lower brain takes over . Books and reading work because you can throw yourself into them without much effort and forget about the intrusive thoughts for a bit. Personally I believe this is a subtype or autism, these kids *definitely* have brain inflammation, vagus nerve issues, massive amounts of anxiety though not necessarily classic. It’s hard for neurotypicals to understand this brain type, but they deserve love and understanding all the same. As do the people who have to live with them, they deserve love and understanding too, because it IS hard to watch. And healing is possible.

Oh my gosh, I had such an emotional reaction to this post. THIS IS MY SONS. Please describe any and all healing!!!!

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 1:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I love this idea! Thank you chayalle!

I want to add that cuddling and reading out loud a chapter every night from a book she enjoys is the most bonding thing in the world. I still read outloud to my slightly "off" teen son, and bake with him, and we watch old time black and white comedies together. I am his anchor, and he knows I love him. And his school/social life is soon hard and confusing.

PurpleandGold

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 2:18 pm

Op, thank you for starting this thread, I promise I understand how much you love your daughter, while it can be difficult to like her. I am struggling with the same with my child at times.

Some questions:

1. Did you ever ask her how she feels about having friends, what she thinks about the girls in her class? I am curious if she thinks her social world is a problem?

2. Besides reading, what other activities interest her? Baking, art, listening to music, collecting miniatures? Perhaps a weekly date to just do those interests side by side, no pressure to converse?

3. Have you thought of an enjoyable bedtime routine that involves showering? Like you have a cup of tea and read out loud a chapter a night together after she is showered and in PJs. You can giver her a warm snuggle on the couch and say how sweet she smells all warm and cozy and ready for bed...

4. How is she doing academically?

amother

Acacia

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 2:30 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

I relate to this as an adult and to a lesser degree as a child due to being abused as a child.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 2:45 pm

So here's my two cents. Do kids not owe us anything? Absolutely not, and it's very much against Torah. The parent can temporarily forgoe their honor but a child needs at least to appreciate that they're alive due to their parents. Obviously if a child was abused it's a very difficult mitzvah to keep but OP seems like a very involved parent.

I think the problem might be that DD developed some unhealthy coping mechanisms over time to get attention. If you're very bothered and emotional about her issues she might (unconsciously) seek ways for you to prove your love for her. Maybe if you eased up on the complaints the issues will become things that bother her and not just things that bother mommy. She lives in your house so she has to follow your rules. There need to be consequences if she's mean to you or her siblings. As far as the friends are concerned, I wouldn't push it. Chances are also that her behavior is exasperated because of puberty and that in a few years she'll change on her own. Make sure to have regular quality time. Ask her what she wants to do for quality time and then just do it. Even if it's just a walk.

Regarding the weight gain, it's either because she's emotionally eating/ bored or she could have a medical condition like food intolerances or thyroid problems.

Anyway, all kids are different and hashem gave her to you for a reason. Teach the child in her way.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 2:54 pm

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

I relate to this as an adult and to a lesser degree as a child due to being abused as a child.

Trauma can absolutely cause this, but in many kids this is a result of inflammation. Both trauma and systemic inflammation will cause the vagus nerve to go into overdrive, putting the body and brain in a constant state of High arousal, survival mode.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Jul 29 2021, 3:01 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Oh my gosh, I had such an emotional reaction to this post. THIS IS MY SONS. Please describe any and all healing!!!!

For us it was neuroinflammation causing the body to go into distress-cave man mode. We took the medical route, addressing inflammation and sources of inflammation such as infections and food sensitivities, and also craniosacral therapy to quiet the vagus nerve. It’s not an easy path, but we got real, lasting results.