MY 12 yr old Davens So slow, not by rote, how can I help him

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 2:39 am

There's something wrong and we can't figure it out, has anyone had this and figured it out? He should know davening fluently by this age, but instead he's reading it and it takes FOREVER. We explored auditory processing, and he did some therapy for that. I don't know if it's related but he has not improved. I don't know if it's a memory thing, a learning disability or what. He can read the Hebrew at an ok speed. Not super fast but not super slow but obv when everyone else is davening by rote and he's stuck reading it he's much slower. Advice please!!! Thanks

amother

Starflower

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 4:10 am

He's reading at the pace he can read, don't pressure him or create anxiety. It can be related to processing speed or something like that, but have patience with him. Tell him to do the deoraita parts and skip if it's causing trouble in school.

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 8:53 am

I know you are not supposed to daven by rote, but he can't keep up with a minyan. And that's not the root reason for it, He doesn't do it bec of he's trying to be so serious with his davening. I find that he reads word. By. Word. In English too. We had a full evaluation last yr and they didn't come up with anything. Is there a specific eval for processing? He has also been tested on kriah, he reads accurately and not super slow but not very quick either. It's not as fluently flowing as I would like but the kriah ppl didn't take issue. I feel like it can be a processing issue or an issue of converting what he's reading to memory . What type of eval would this be? What type of therapist would this be? (He had a speech eval for language/processing and then an auditory processing eval at the recommendation of the slp (there they did see some deficit in auditory processing and he did a computer based therapy program for this, which he completed) And then we did a nueropsych eval. These were Bec he struggles with translation in learning - not concepts he's actually pretty smart. There were no specific findings. But I still feel like we missing something)

amother

Cinnamon

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:03 am

My dd (now 14) has a visual processing deficiency, it's akin to dyslexia.

As a result, she relies more on sight reading than phonetic reading (which takes more effort). The result of that is English (her first/primary language) is much easier to read than Hebrew. And, the result of that is she does daven often in a mix of English and Hebrew.

Maybe he should have a English/Hebrew siddur so he can do some tefillos in English and not have to struggle so much with kriah in davenning?

simcha2

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:06 am

Can he say any of it by heart?

Did he say shema at night without a siddur?

If you ask him to say birkat hashachar by heart, does he know it?

Meaning does he know it by heart, but is relying on the siddur, or does he not remember the words?

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:06 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Did the school suggest auditory processing? What else are they suggesting? Many schools these days have kriah specialists on staff, for all ages. Hatzlacha!

The school did not initiate the conversation, and not Bec they ignore issues there. I think this is so specific that it is just not noticeable in school. The translation issue we noticed at home by home work. In school it wasn't noticed and he tests very well in school after studying. They do work with kriah specialists in school and they have never brought up concerns. He can read... I'm guessing he's right along the line of being ok.. He reads quite accurately and not as slow as can be so no one brought it up, but when compared with kids who by age 12 know davening by heart, if a kid doesn't know it by heart and is trying to read it, he can't keep up. It's weird that he doesn't know it by heart though, I think that's a clue to the issue, I just don't know what to do with that..!

PinkFridge

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:09 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I would pose this to mechanchim (and machanchos) who may have seen this before.

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:10 am

amother [ Cinnamon ] wrote:

What type of evaluation was done that picked up the visual processing deficiency? And is there therapy that helps ?

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:12 am

simcha2 wrote:

This is a good question. I'm going to check with him.

amother

Starflower

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:13 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

A full PsychoEducational evaluation should pick up on processing speed. Tests that evaluate cognitive skills will pinpoint exactly the issue. Go to a school psychologist or a child psychologist for a full evaluation.

amother

Cinnamon

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

What type of evaluation was done that picked up the visual processing deficiency? And is there therapy that helps ?

She had a school eval (by the district) that identified attention concerns. (Our district evaluators cannot/do not officially diagnose--that requires a private eval.)

So, we had her privately evaluated by a psychologist with a focus on ADHD (which ultimately she was also diagnosed with) in order to get an official diagnosis and recommendations, and in the course of that, the psychologist noticed something else going on with visual word/letter processing. (Her performance on those exercises sharply dropped off--even taking into account attention issues--which is what piqued the psychologist's interest in looking at that too.)

amother

Stoneblue

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:17 am

tp3 wrote:

Is he repeating words to get them exactly right? Like ocd?

I know you already responded to this saying it can’t be it, but I’m just going to say that it could still be ocd even if he’s not repeating words. Just enunciating each word slowly can be a compulsion. As a reading specialist, something doesn’t sit right with me because usually even (or especially) the kids who aren’t reading well, tend to memorize the words of davening and say them by heart. I don’t know anyone who is not a fluent reader and reads each word again and again every single day as if for the first time.

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:53 am

amother [ Stoneblue ] wrote:

Very interesting point. I'm going to see if he has any davening by memory.. I suspect very little. So I'm thinking more along the lines of a processing issue that also affects memory if that's even a thing. I am not disregarding the ocd option I will def keep that in mind. But esp Bec he has this translation issue I think theres more of a learning thing going on.

amother

Fri, Sep 24 2021, 9:55 am

For children who have processing disorders, are there therapies that help, or is the diagnosis just to know what your dealing with and then you make accomodations? Meaning...is this "treatable" or is this something he will just have to accept about himself and make accomodations?