Losing friendships and social life because of vax status?

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:41 pm

amother [ Hyssop ] wrote:

So you admit that the vaccine doesnt protect you from getting covid so why do you want everyone else to take it? Either the vaccine protects you and you are safe regardless of what anyone else does or the vaccine doesnt protect you so no one should be forced to take it. You cant have it both ways.

No vaccine, and no medication, is 100% effective. Particularly for high risk people. So although I am vaccinated, I am careful.

I don't particularly care if you vaccinate or not. I believe your refusal to do so vastly increases the risk to you and to others. Its impacting our economy, and raising our healthcare costs astronomically.
But again, your business.

But I do have the right to choose where I go, and who I associate with. If a restaurant or other place does not check vaccination status, I won't go. And I don't want you in my home, or at my simcha, if you're not vaccinated. As I've said elsewhere, you don't need to tell me. But if you say "I prefer not to say," I won't be in close premises with you.

My choice.

Why do you believe that only unvaccinated have the right to choose.

rmbg

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:43 pm

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

I got married during COVID and we requested that those who weren’t vaccinated to notify us so we figure out how to accommodate having them at our Simcha.
I had a friend who couldn’t tell me that she fell into that category and was extremely non-chalant about it when I asked her directly - and didn’t come even when we allowed non-vax participate in areas.
She didn’t even reach out to wish me mazel tov, which honestly still hurts.

Why should she come? She wasn’t interested in being in a designated area like shes a pariah or something. You made your choice and she made yours.

gold21

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:43 pm

heidi wrote:

I totally understand and agree with unvaccinated adults being ostracized.
If they want to harm and potentially kill themselves that's their business.
But every single ecmo in at least one major Israeli hospital is being used by unvaccinated covid patients.
Which means vaccinated people who need ecmo for other reasons die.
If the unvaccinated can't be bothered to protect others I have no interest in associating with them.
In fact I'm boycotting a relative's simcha tomorrow bcz neither she nor her husband are vaccinated.

I am very glad to hear that Heidi is at a healthy weight (BMI between 18.5 & 25), eats her veggies, exercises, and actively avoids spending time with smokers, alcoholics, and addicts.

Good work, Heidi.

amother

Crocus

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:44 pm

rmbg wrote:

Why should she come? She wasn’t interested in being in a designated area like shes a pariah or something. You made your choice and she made yours.

Would you say the same if if she had a vulnerable grandma she wanted at her wedding? I'd always choose my grandparents (if they were still alive) over my friends. And if I weren't invited at all to a good friend's wedding because it somehow interfered with her having an elderly relative there, I'd understand.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:44 pm

heidi wrote:

I totally understand and agree with unvaccinated adults being ostracized.
If they want to harm and potentially kill themselves that's their business77.
But every single ecmo in at least one major Israeli hospital is being used by unvaccinated covid patients.
Which means vaccinated people who need ecmo for other reasons die.
If the unvaccinated can't be bothered to protect others I have no interest in associating with them.
In fact I'm boycotting a relative's simcha tomorrow bcz neither she nor her husband are vaccinated.

Where r u getting this information from I personally know 2 fully vaccinated people in Israel on an ecmo machine.

gold21

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:48 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

You absolutely have that choice. I would hope, though, that you keep up these relationships virtually- over the phone, zoom, text, social media, etc- if you are afraid to be around them in person. That's just my advice and nothing more.

rmbg

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:57 pm

amother [ Crocus ] wrote:

I don’t think I understand what you’re asking me. You have a choice who to include under what conditions and she has a choice whether she wants to come under your conditions.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 4:58 pm

There is a huge misconception here. People that got both vaccines can a) spread covid b) get covid. The same as unvaccinated. I wish the vaccine works unfortunately where I live in Israel everyone got both vaccines and almost all of us got covid.
We all thought the vaccine would work. ppl I know are not taking the 3rd vaccine. If 2 didnt work why would a 3rd.

gold21

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:00 pm

If only the lines between who is a good person and who is not were so easily delineated with something as simple as vaccination status.

Alas, that is not true.

If you don't want to spend time with an unvaxxed person out or FEAR, ok. If you don't want to spend time with an unvaxxed person out of HATE, that reflects more on you than on anyone else.

amother

Brass

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:02 pm

I think that Heidi's premise (and maybe others' too) is that:

Vaccinated = cares about other people
Unvaccinated = couldn't care less about others

I think that's a pretty big jump, and not very accurate.

Someone who had covid and recovered is essentially "vaccinated" for the purpose of protecting others, despite not being injected with spike proteins.

Someone for whom the vaccine poses a medical risk, and are advised by doctors not to take it, may care about others but also about their own health.

Additionally, is this JUST about covid, or do you generally alienate people whom you feel don't care enough about others? Those who double park, don't wear gloves when cooking for others, send their kids to school with tylenol when sick, litter, or smoke?

(I also think that asking about vaccination status for simchas etc. shows an unrealistic assumption on the effectiveness of the vaccine.)

amother

Sand

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:05 pm

gold21 wrote:

People that fear being around unvaccinated people, don't stop their relationship or ostracize them. They keep up in other ways and it doesn’t affect their relationship. They don't think they're holier-than-thou and don't harras and bully others for their decisions.
If someone says that unvaccinated people are a menace, deserve to be ostracized, and don't deserve medical treatment, that's hate. Full stop.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:07 pm

This thread is so sad. All the posters have totally hijacked it to champion their cause. Totally not what OP intended.
I'm going to try to explain how it's possible to avoid this divisiveness.
First I'll be completely honest with you - I am vaccinated. Why? Initially I was very resistant but when all the Gedolim (R' Chaim, R' Gershon and many more) encouraged it I decided that I will take it. I do believe in my heart of hearts that it's not harmful but I also believe it's not very effective.
I happen to take precautions myself and most people in my community do. I have no problem telling people I am vaccinated or asking them if they are vaccinated simply because I do NOT intend to treat them any differently knowing the answer.
So how can we end this?
- To all those who are vaccinated and worried - protect yourself and stop judging those who choose not to vaccinate. Wear a good mask in public if you are concerned. Social distance. And don't go to functions. If you are making a Simcha keep it small and safe.
- To all who aren't vaccinated - don't treat vaccinated people like they have some contagious disease or imbeciles for listening to doctors. They have minds of their own and have made thought out decisions. Please don't make them nervous about the vaccine.
To everyone please remember the most basic foundations of the Torah ואהבת לרעך כמוך. Please, please just go back to being normal people. Let's stop defining and labeling ourselves as vaccinate or unvaccinated. Let's define ourselves as friendly, warm, kind, open minded and loving.

gold21

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:07 pm

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

Facts.
Yup.

amother

Crocus

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:12 pm

rmbg wrote:

I don’t think I understand what you’re asking me. You have a choice who to include under what conditions and she has a choice whether she wants to come under your conditions.

That doesn't mean the hostess is making a pariah out of her friend because she wanted to take precautions with her unvaccinated guests to protect her vulnerable family members. Maybe if she didn't do that, the family members couldn't attend.
I have a relative who is an organ transplant recipient and he was told very specific guidelines abt how to try to stay safe. He came to a family wedding not too long ago and left pretty quickly because the people who needed to follow certain protocol weren't.
There is no call to bash that poster who may very well have been trying to follow medical guidelines.

amother

Sand

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:19 pm

amother [ Crocus ] wrote:

A better solution is to require masks from all guests, which vulnerable people should anyways be doing.

causemommysaid

Wed, Oct 06 2021, 5:35 pm

heidi wrote:

I had to vax for work even though I'm recovered from covid and had antibody treatment. I'm beyond protected but it's honestly no one's business. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation and if I were your relative, I'd be happy you aren't coming to my simcha. Who needs your hateful attitude?

Op, I don't know why people are being mean to you. Maybe let them know you are vaxxed and willing to visit without your husband.