Can you explain Mitzva tantz?

amother

Scarlet

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:50 am

Chayalle wrote:

By my Chassidish relatives, the Chasan and Kallah hold hands, but they don't actually move.

I guess the hand-holding in public is same as they do after the chuppah.

No, it’s different. After the chuppah it’s walking down the aisle, it’s not as bad.
By the Mitzvah tanz, they don’t move that much , but they’re sort of swaying, walking a little and holding hands for a long time while everyone is just staring.
I didn’t want to say this before, but now that other posters said it… my husband also says it’s assur. It’s derech chibbah birabim and can’t see a heter as how that is with in the geder of tznius.

amother

Jasmine

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:53 am

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

With the greatest respect to your husband, how can it be assur when people much older, wiser, and holier than him do it? If it’s not your minhag, don’t do it. But it’s not assur.

Genius

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 11:54 am

amother [ Jasmine ] wrote:

With the greatest respect to your husband, how can it be assur when people much older, wiser, and holier than him do it? If it’s not your minhag, don’t do it. But it’s not assur.

It’s assur for her. It’s not assur for people who have this minhag.

nchr

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:07 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Your husband should be ashamed of himself to say such a thing. It's a holy thing done by many tzadikim. Also, a mitzvah tantz is about Hashem. It's about soidos thst are very high and holy and hidden. It's not as much about the couple at all. It happens to be it happens at a chasuna (maybe because it's like Hashem connecting to Yidden etc I don't know) but it is 100% about Hashem, the yichud of Hashem, the coming of moshiach and higher kavunes that we cannot understand. Some people have a minhag to spell out Hashems name when dancing and there are other minhagim.

If your husband can only think with nivel of a chussen touching the hands of a kallah in a time when he is supposed to be thinking about the oneness and greatness of Hashem, he should work on himself.

Also, I thought the halucha is the chussen must physically take the kallah into the yichud room. How do litvish do this after chuppa if he does not touch her hand?

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:09 pm

nchr wrote:

Is this halacha or minhag?

One can also say we should thinking about the oneness of Hashem 24/7.
How can you blame someone for not having the proper kavanos if this is outside their frame of reference? Maybe people should print a flyer for those who aren't familiar with the minhag.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Ginger

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:10 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

The couple is NOT holding hands in a chibbah type of way. They're barely touching/moving and it's very serious.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:10 pm

For all those saying that they don't hold hands after chuppah, don't yeshivish couples hold hands when they come in for dancing? I never saw a couple not Holding hands when coming in for dancing. Most non chassidish weddings I've been to, the couple dances and jumps together in front of everyone by the dancing introduction before going in.

amother

Daffodil

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:11 pm

amother [ Jasmine ] wrote:

With the greatest respect to your husband, how can it be assur when people much older, wiser, and holier than him do it? If it’s not your minhag, don’t do it. But it’s not assur.

Anyone can make a mistake, even big people.

And as you know, the misnagdim felt that all Chassidus is wrong.

Genius

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:13 pm

nchr wrote:

He doesn’t have to be ashamed. It’s not their minhag so for them it’s assur.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:14 pm

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

Anyone can make a mistake, even big people.

And as you know, the misnagdim felt that all Chassidus is wrong.

She can say that it's assur for him.
I'm almost certain that the same people that say it's assur, they hold hands when they go in to dancing. It's not much of a difference. I think that the couple dance and jumping together before coming in to dancing is worse than mitzvah tantz where the couple barely touches or moves.

amother

Bluebell

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:16 pm

Chayalle wrote:

In the Litvish/yeshivish world, we believe the neshamos come down to the Chuppah. For us, that's the high and holiest and most connected point. I remember walking down to my Chuppah and thinking that my beloved grandmother is here.....

When my youngest sister was in shidduchim, my mother A"H was very ill, and at a certain point, my sister told me that she realizes that my mother probably won't be at her wedding. We discussed different options, like all the sisters going to her before wedding dressed up, dance with her, etc....

But then my mother passed away right before she got engaged (they were already dating) and my sister said during the Shiva, now Mommy will be at my wedding.

This. I'm chassidish and we believe likewise. The neshomos are there at the Chuppah and that's part of what make it to be the holiest part of the wedding. I don't know how this consistently gets confused with the mitzvah tanz. The mitzvah tanz is for mesameach chosson v'kallah, where the men get the opportunity to dance l'fnei hakallah. There isn't any part of the wedding otherwise where they get to do that.

These many jokes and long carried out hespedim is a recent thing. Originally these were short and sweet to introduce yichus and recall family members who have passed on. A badchen was brought in to lighten the atmosphere since otherwise it would be hard-pressed to keep the audience awake at the late hour. I don't know exactly when it devolved into these long megillahs of delineating yichus and pumping egos, but it has gotten very much out of hand. So much so, that the recent generations is backtracking to the way it was, short and sweet.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:17 pm

amother [ Daffodil ] wrote:

Some are and some aren't.

Even so, husbands and wives don't hold hands even if it's not derech chiba (in my world).

It's not derech chibbah. (Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but they're not typical chassidish couples and they anyways touch in public in general.) Who are you to decide that husbands and wives don't hold hands if it's not derech chiba? Everyone has their minhagim.
Did you hold hands with your husband when you went in to dancing?

amother

Daffodil

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:19 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

She can say that it's assur for him.
[b]I'm almost certain that the same people that say it's assur, they hold hands when they go in to dancing. It's not much of a difference[/b]. I think that the couple dance and jumping together before coming in to dancing is worse than mitzvah tantz where the couple barely touches or moves.

For real? What in the world???!!! You really think we do that????

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:25 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

No.

I've been to tens, maybe hundreds of yeshivish chasunos and have never once see couples holding hands when coming in for dancing (or any other time, unless they were also "heimish" and held hands after the chuppah).

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:26 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

I've never seen otherwise. How do you walk in to dancing? Didn't you go in together with your husband?

Side by side, next to each other (but not touching, holding hands, dancing, or having any other form of physical contact). At the entrance to the room, the couple splits up and the chosson heads to the men and the kallah to the women.

amother

Ginger

Fri, Oct 08 2021, 12:27 pm

amother [ Raspberry ] wrote:

Interesting. Every yeshivish wedding I've been to, the couple holds hands coming in for dancing. My FIL extended family is yeshivish. My moms extended family is MO. I've never seen a couple not holding hands coming in to dancing.