S/O- forced to like a name

amother

Diamond

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:00 pm

Although I fully understand the feeling of indignation and the concept that the parents are the ones who had the child and therefore they get to choose the name for said child, honestly you can really only understand once you’re in the situation. Once it comes down to it, barring naming after a horrible person or giving a name that is triggering for you for any reason, most times it’s the right thing to do. And yes, aside from extreme circumstances like I said before, or an extremely unusual name you are not comfortable with, it does grow on you. If the poster contemplating the name Leah is still on here, kol hakavod for making an effort to come to terms with it. When you name your child, the name takes on a whole new meaning. And the meaningfulness of the name to those who it matters to most, like the child of the person whose name you are giving, cannot truly be understood until one is in that situation. It is a most incredible gift.
Ps I am not even close to that stage in life where I am advising my children what to name their kids, and yes I have been requested to give names to my kids on multiple occasions so this is not a biased post

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:01 pm

amother [ Nemesia ] wrote:

I'm not saying you're wrong. You aren't. I totally hear where you're coming from. I do think, after seeing my mother and her devastation after a parent died, that sometimes it's really part of their grief. That their parent isn't alive anymore, and that even their last chance for a memory in this world is now gone. I don't think you can understand that unless someone really close to you has died, and you miss them desperately. She feels a lot of pain in missing her mother, and maybe you didn't acknowledge that in a way that she understood.

I know my sibling did something similar, and while my mother didn't do anything like what you described, that sibling did go over a few years ago and apologized formally. She didn't even think, deep down, that she did anything wrong! But she apologized to my mother for not understanding how hurtful it was to her, and that she loved her and thanked her for understanding. My mother cried to hear it, and they're really quite close.

I totally understand the emotional aspect. I kept part of the original name and changed one to honor my grandmother. My mom besides for not talking me said really really hurtful things to me. Like things one should never say to their child. Additionally, I did apologize and she didn't forgive. She probably never will. At that point there was not much more I can do. It's kind of foolish to sacrifice your relationship with your living children and grandchildren over a name. As a child its a really tough situation to be in, especially with all the emotions of just giving birth.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:03 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

I think it is possible to compromise, if you’re creative.

I named our first child, though DH had no real objections except that we didn’t end up using his favorite name.

For our second, I wanted to let him pick something he liked, but I also gently reminded him that various relatives named Aharon, Avraham, and Shlomo hadn’t been named after yet. I knew he wasn’t going to like any of them for various reasons (mostly having to do with people he knew; no offense to anyone with those names). The compromise we came up with, which we both love, was Ariel: a phonetic nod to Aharon and Avraham and a thematic nod to Shlomo, who built the beis Hamikdash which is called Ariel. And perfect for our baby, who was expected in Elul but came a few weeks early in Av.

(Anon because everyone who attended his bris knows this story.)

That sounds ideal. But unfortunately some people are hung up on using the exact name and this wouldn't be a solution in their eyes.

tweety1

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:09 pm

amother [ Oatmeal ] wrote:

I despise the concept. The only ones choosing the name should be the parents of the child. No one should be forced to hate their child's name. I believe it ruins the relationship between the parent and the baby and it's so wrong. I personally name whatever I feel is right. Shame on all people who force this on their kids.

This!! I had a girl and was supposed to name her after my grandmother. I hated the woman. She tortured my mother, she forced my mother to give one of her kids the most unusual name and call the kid that way because it was her parent, her middos were horrendous. My father is a clone from her. I didn't give the name. We asked our lor and we were told I don't have to give it. My father is still fuming mad at me how I had the guts to not name MY child after his mother. I cannot wrap my head around the concept of grandparents mixing their nose in. I grew up like that. My father always made a huge fight. Most of my siblings just caved in and gave what he insisted. Bh bh bh a million times bh dh had the mind, and balls, and his parents support to not cave in to my father's terrorism.

amother

Hawthorn

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:12 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Can someone please explain this concept to me.
Ive read sooo many threads "please help me like this name I HAVE to give" "I really hate this name but my in laws/dh insists" etc. I learned in seminary (by sem) that its really more appropriate for a mother to name the first child and for her choice to be valued over the husbands. ofc its a discussion, but as a chessed to the wife for carrying a baby for 9 long months, she can choose the name.

Why do inlaws think its a normal request to force their DIL/son to name their baby after them (if theyre sefardi) or after s/o who was niftar? I just really cant wrap my mind around it. Maybe bc I am more opinionated and dont like to be told what to do, but I would never name my baby after my FIL or MIL. I dont like their names. And I wouldnt want my kids named after my parents either

(were sefardi so its a kavod to do it by us)

I agree with your conclusion about parents choosing themselves for my personal life...

But why do you think that what some random teacher in your particular seminary taught you about naming supercedes other people's minhagim or family preferences?

I'm lucky in that I'm also sephardi, from a community where there's absolutely no pressure or precedent for naming, so dh and I chose all our kids names. Some of my siblings named for, some named after (they're all married to Ashkenazim, happens to be). But no pressure.

But if a community has a strong mesorah of naming for or after, and it's an honor to the parents and in laws and conversely an embarrassment if not...then I can hear how it's a serious question.

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 6:26 pm

In my family (community) no one has a say in the naming of a child besides the parents.
We were never ever pushed or given any hints or reminders.

It is just a something that is very important to me. To give my children that tangible connection to where they came from.
Choosing a name for a child is about so much more than just liking the way the letters look and sound. The meaning and connectivity is something that impacts their lives.

So yeh, some of the names we chose aren’t my favourite names. But it was still our decision.
I love my children and their names are part of who they are.

amother

Pink

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:10 pm

Interesting cuz this is something I've been thinking about. With our first, I chose the names, based on a situation we had recently gone through, and the names together felt like it would be a Bracha for whatever it was. A family member was very taken aback, although we didn't have anyone super close to name for BH. Now I'm BH due in about 5 weeks, and my husband's grandmother passed away within the past half a year or so. I'm sure everyone is assuming that if it's a girl, we'll be naming after her. Well, it's IyH a girl! And we aren't naming for that grandmother. We both can't stand the name. We already picked a name we love (my husband chose the first of the two names, I chose the second), and I'm just waiting for the upset that this relative will go through... Cuz this person will let us know!

amother

Firethorn

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:24 pm

When my cousin had a baby moments after my grandfather's levaya everyone knew what the name would be. My cousin was happy to be the first to name. Everyone went from getting up from Shiva to the bris.

Our Rov (my father is his assistant) told my dad (not my uncle or his daughter) that when one passes on there is Midas hadin. When someone (descendent) is named after the niftar it removes all din from the family of the niftar and the baby named after. This is strongest during Shiva, a little less during shloshim and a little less throughout the year of aveilus. It brings Brocha and Nechama to the family.

Two years later my grandma passed suddenly. Two weeks later I had a girl. It was my husbands turn to name and we had wanted to name for his grandma that had passed 10 years before. My husband had heard what the Rov had told my dad two years prior. He told me if it's ok with me we are naming after my grandma. My daughter is a comfort to the family. She has many of my grandma's characteristics. We are BH so happy we named for her.

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:25 pm

My children are BH very respectful and ASKED us to suggest some names as they
WANTED to Honor us - even though we are unable to give financial support.

My MIL was recently niftar and per our suggestion my daughter gave the name even
though my daughter prefers non-yiddish names.

My DD was very close to her grandmother who was a big Tzadeikis, and did not DISLIKE the name.

I am not crazy about most yiddish names but I think Tzirel is pretty.
Not so easy for Non-Jews to pronounce though.

If a parent really HATES the name....that is something to consider. Maybe call by a second name.

I would ask a Rov.

PS

My sister "had" to name her baby Faigy after her MIL. She did not like that name so she
named the baby Tziporah Faigeh and calls her DD Tzippy.

SYA

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:29 pm

My Zaide passed away before I got married. When I had my first child relatives from my other parent's siblings were commenting how I would name for my Zaide. I had told my husband it is his turn to go first. He decided to name for a Chabad Rebbe. That side of the family was surprised but my Zaides side was fine. A few years later I did name a son for my Zaide. I was very close to him and was happy to.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:30 pm

amother [ Hawthorn ] wrote:

It's not a random concept from a particular seminary. There's a sefer in where this is discussed. I forget the name at the moment, I'll have to ask my father again for the name of it. That sefer says exactly what the seminary taught the poster. It's the mother and father who should name the child, and if there's a disagreement between husband and wife, the wife's choice takes precedence.

There is also the concept that the mother is granted special ruach hakodesh to find the right name for the child. If the mother doesn't feel the name is right for the baby, then the name shouldn't be given.

Children are very well aware of the tradition of passing down names. If children choose not to do it, they have a reason for it. Grandparents shouldn't be pressuring their children to name them after their choices.

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:35 pm

amother [ Oatmeal ] wrote:

I get it alright. Kibud av is misused it’s a religious way to control your kids and everyone should be aware that it’s not what hashem wants.

Actually Hashem commanded us to HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER.

Children can choose NOT to do so, but I don't think that is what Hashem wants -
unless there is a very compelling reason.

amother

Begonia

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:35 pm

amother [ Oatmeal ] wrote:

I get it alright. Kibud av is misused it’s a religious way to control your kids and everyone should be aware that it’s not what hashem wants.

You obviously didn’t read my earlier response. There is no one forcing us to use a name. My MIL is dead so she’s certainly not. Her ex husband x 35 years doesn’t care either. My husband and I feel it’s respectful to name for her.

You know what Hashem wants? Do tell us more

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:37 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Actually Hashem commanded us to HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER.

Children can choose NOT to do so, but I don't think that is what Hashem wants -
unless there is a very compelling reason.

Honoring doesn't mean that you must do their bidding at all costs. You can respectfully decline while honoring them at the same time.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:40 pm

amother [ Oatmeal ] wrote:

I get it alright. Kibud av is misused it’s a religious way to control your kids and everyone should be aware that it’s not what hashem wants.

I agree with you. We try to manipulate society into compliance. We use the school systems to force parents to do the community's bidding, and parents use kibud av or relationship threats to get kids to do their bidding. To me this speaks volumes about our setup.

If a system can't stand on its own two feet without resorting to such tactics, then there's something inherently wrong with it.

amother

Oatmeal

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:41 pm

amother [ Begonia ] wrote:

I know that he isn’t ok with parents controlling and manipulating their children in the name of Torah. And I wish everyone understood that. Since it’s not kibud av in your case why use the expression? It hurts those that are actually being controlled in the name of religion. I get the honoring the dead that you feel like doing on your own. So why throw kibud av in there?

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:42 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Agree. Not at "all costs."

But It is a Mitzvah and should not be taken lightly.

Giving a child a name you don't like follows you around all the time. Not giving in to a parent's demand in regard to this doesn't mean you take the mitzvah lightly.

amother

Oatmeal

Tue, Dec 07 2021, 8:44 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Agree. Not at "all costs."

But It is a Mitzvah and should not be taken lightly.

Nope the mitzvah is clear. You as the parent never get to demand anything in the name of kibud av. That’s not a mitzvah. And naming a grandchild isn’t a grandparents right, nor is it it a mitzvah to listen.