Mussar that is actually damaging - share your incident

amother

Grape

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 1:08 am

I was going through a very rough patch - DC had been molested and there was a death in the family. I now realize that I was clinically depressed. I called my mentor who told me: "You should be more positive. Look at Z. She has a hard life, but she is so optimistic, always with a smile."

Meanwhile, another friend asked me (repeatedly) why we were not having more children - she could imagine me with a cute little girl in a pink blanket.

I could not stop crying for days. And, weirdly, I distanced myself not only from my obtuse "advisors", but from poor innocent Z. whose smile just grated on my nerves.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 1:15 am

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

Horrid!!!!! I can so so relate. Am trying for my first for a while now and it's not going. I was crying my eyes out to a person I consider smart. She tells me listen hashem runs the world. You dont have it any harder then any Joe on the street. And then she goes on to quote a list of tzaros that I could have had but dont and tells me to be grateful. Well, guess if I avoid her now.

amother

Grape

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 1:45 am

amother [ Pansy ] wrote:

Ouch! So sorry - what an insensitive tirade!

Eventuallly my depression went away and my skin grew thicker. Today, I can tolerate a stupid remark or two, as long as it comes from a caring friend and not a random yenta. I just respond that I am not ready for mussar, but need validation and support first. Of course, I could not pull it off when in so much pain.

At the time I also felt that BTs get more than their share of cluelessness. This thread showed that there is no discrimination in this regard Smile

Goody2shoes

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 2:05 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Not really mussar but... Workmate gave me a bag with clothes that werent tzniusdig for her but would be perfect for me! Inside the bag there were shorts and lingerie style clothes.

Ouch!! She actually said that?? Less extreme but reminds me of the books l got from a friend that were not clean enough for her but that I would undoubtedly love. I didnt keep one

amother

Pansy

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 2:07 am

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

Can you clue me in on how to get thicker skin? Would love if I can pm u about this topic

amother

Mauve

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 2:29 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Not really mussar but... Workmate gave me a bag with clothes that werent tzniusdig for her but would be perfect for me! Inside the bag there were shorts and lingerie style clothes.

I'm so sorry but I actually laughed out loud.

I've given clothes away before that were short or too tight on me to smaller friends and I worried I might have offended them. I've never done anything like that though

amother

Grape

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 3:16 am

amother [ Pansy ] wrote:

Can you clue me in on how to get thicker skin? Would love if I can pm u about this topic

I wish I had the magic formula! I just got to a better place emotionally and became generally calmer. Looking back, I badly needed therapy and medication, but I stuck it out by pure grit. Not recommended!! In the end I became too unemotional, I am afraid. Maybe it's time to explore it in therapy...

amother

Cadetblue

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 3:38 am

amother [ Pistachio ] wrote:

Few years ago I lost a newborn baby and to find meaning I started to go to Shabbos shiur weekly. As the Rebetzin Was giving lecture someone asked her about evil eye and what it can do. She proceeded to explain saying that when someone is jealous and looks at someone with evil eye then this can cause judgement. Judgement where Hashem decides if person DESERVES what they got. And as she said that she made strong eye contact with me. She knew my family personally so this was blow in heart to me.

I can't hug this post enough! x

amother

Lime

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 6:28 am

I owned a bedding store and had an ad of a full size bed with 2 pillows. I got an anonymous letter in the mill with $20 rebuking me for posting such disgusting pictures that someone should cv”s imagine a couple lying in the bed together!!! And the $20 was for me to give you my graphic artist to change it to a single bed. I gave the $20 to my little brother and told him to buy ice cream.

I moved to my in-laws town and my mother lectured me about my shallow mother in-laws. Her exact words- “how will in make sure not to turn into Sodom while being in Sodom?” 😱

FranticFrummie

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 6:40 am

Oh my gosh, these stories are nuts! Hugs to everyone, and may your embarrassment be turned to brachos 100x.

This is a small incident, but it made a big impact on me. A woman I knew just converted, and she threw a big Shabbos seuda to celebrate. I was just becoming frum myself, and the table was full of people who I was just getting to know.

After lunch she served tea. When I took my teabag out of the cup, I squished it a bit to squeeze out the last bit, just like my very frugal mom always did. It was sheer force of habit, and I hadn't given it a thought.

Suddenly, this woman JUMPS from her seat and yells "SHABBOS! You can't squeeze liquid out of a teabag! It's a melacha! It's ossur!"

I wanted to crawl under the table and die. I must have turned white, and then 100 shades of red. Everyone was looking at me, and all I could do was sit there and pretend to be calm. "Sorry, I forgot." For the rest of the meal I didn't say a single word to anyone, because I was so terrified of making a mistake.

I could never look that woman in the eye again after that, because I harbored such feelings against her that I didn't want to project onto her. I just avoided her at all costs.

To embarrass someone publicly is like spilling blood. embarrassed

(I also want to thank all the kiruv rabbis and their families, who gently corrected me in private, explained to me the halacha, and never made me feel like a lowly worm.)

amother

Tealblue

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 6:58 am

I have an athletic, broad, very powerful body type and I am naturally very muscular. My calves are not dainty and thin by any stretch, nor is anything else for that matter. As a teen I always favored shorter skirts even though floor length was very in. My mother was always trying to get me to lengthen them and once commented how I'm not embarrassed to leave such fat calves on display with my short skirts. If they would be longer nobody would see them (for context she's the exact opposite of me - petite and dainty).

From that day on my skirts got progressively shorter and never covered my knees again, never mind my calves.

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 7:00 am

amother [ Pansy ] wrote:

Can you clue me in on how to get thicker skin? Would love if I can pm u about this topic

I'm not her, but there are two main aspects to this. One type of sensitivity is if you are emotionally wounded. That can lessen as the wound heals. The other is overall sensitivity, and you don't want to make it go away. It's linked to empathy and overall feeling.

amother

Garnet

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 7:26 am

I went to a shavuos meal the first year of my marriage.
I went through so many changes in those first months, to be short, when I married I turned very ultra frum. By then I was on very shaky ground. I was recovering from a miscarriage and I was so angry and bitter so some physical parts changed (more colored clothing, from tichel to wig) but I still was perfectly tznius.
Anyway. I wanted to be comfortable, so I wore my nice shabbos bandana. Shortly before they made havdolah, the hostess comes up to me and says
“I was thinking maybe I can tell my husband to tell your husband to give you money so you can buy a bigger hair covering so your hair is covered and do laser.” My hair was FULLY covered. Some neck hairs poked out though. But I tugged my bandana around so I can cover. Now I know those hairs are not a problem halachically, but culturally it can be.
The ride home I was in tears. And I was all over the place. I refused to cover my hair completely at home. I’d leave an inch showing. I brought more colored clothing.
I got so bitter towards this lady, and I told myself a few months back that maybe she doesn’t know a different hashkofa or how other people do mitzvos and practically convinced myself to forgive her.

Writing this now still brings up the shame hurt and embarrassment, so I know now that my forgiveness was not sincere. It’s been almost 3 years since we have been at her house. I recently saw this lady’s mother at a wedding and the look she gave me, oy.

She made a face like cringe and caught in the headlights type…by then I was wearing a shoulder length human hair wig, and beige not seamed tights. I was still tznius though, just not up to her standards. For the longest time, I felt so unworthy, like I wasn’t doing good enough.

Last edited by amother on Fri, Dec 31 2021, 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

IndianRed

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 7:39 am

While going through 8 years of infertility,my grandfather said," don't you want to give your mother nachas and have kids already". Honestly, I think he really couldn't fathom that such a thing as infertility existed.

In the same note...my dad died 45 years ago when I was 6. I had 2 girls and my sister wasn't married..so no name for my dad. My cousin said to me..don't you want to have a boy to name for your dad??? It's so hurtful to me that 45 years later my dad still doesn't have anyone named after him

Never give someone mussar to have kids!! Never!!

mommy3b2c

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 8:39 am

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Someone sent me several letters in the mail and then called me to say that hair sticking out is assur, that my little 5 year old’s clothes are not tznius enough, and a whole bunch of other issues that are apparently assur to her but not to me because I don’t follow her shitos. She told me things like “if you don’t have yiras shamayim at least try to have yiras basar vdam” as if the entire world is keeping her “halachos” and I’m a public sinner.

She called me on erev Yom Kippur and I couldn’t daven throughout the day because she made me feel so wicked.

I started resenting those ultra frum people and their chumras

I feel so surprised that you would care. If someone did these things to me I would laugh. This person is clearly very mentally unwell. I feel sorry for crazy people but they also make me laugh .

singsong

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 8:42 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

That isn't mussar. It's meddling. Mussar is defined as "correction" or "instruction." Don't dignify bossily interfering with someone's life or attempting to impose one's will on others by calling it "mussar."

Many times people who say things like that are rebuking others for taking birth control. I'm sure you understand that there is a large segment of jews that believe using BC is absolutely assur and that nobody should be taking it.

amother

Melon

Fri, Dec 31 2021, 8:47 am

We took a few years to have kids. Dh's safta would say I don't have kids because I don't want to and that I was selfish!

Same safta would say I didn't cook, even though I cook every single day, because my dishes weren't elaborate enough and because dh likes to help cooking for Shabbat, so she assumed it was because I didn't cook.

When I finally got pregnant, this safta would comment how fat I was (yes she used those words) , and that would make me want to eat more... And I was having a health issue that caused me to gain weight.

When it was time for ds' bar mitzvah, I said I wanted to do in a certain place and she gave me mussar saying how poor I was and that I would never be able to pay for it. Hashem runs the world and I was able to make a very beautiful party!