Why do people judge working mothers?

chmom

Tue, May 10 2022, 12:52 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

A father has a chiyuv min hatorah to work and support his family. A woman has no such chiyuv. Yeah, many women need to work. But many don't. In my community, many women work & shop only designer clothing, live in fancy luxury homes, and go on lavish vacations. Those women don't need to work, they want to work.

And so? Many women work not only for the paycheck but also for the stimulation and sense of achievement. They might be doing something which gives them pleasure and sense of accomplishment. Are women not also people in their own right with interests and an intellect? Do we not have the right to exercise our strengths and capabilities? Do we exist solely for the benefit of others without a claim on our own happiness and fulfillment?
Is being a mother and wife the only raison d‘être for our being alive?
(And as soon as Kollel comes into the picture that Chiyuv is suddenly not so important anymore.)
You have got to be kidding me

amother

Mocha

Tue, May 10 2022, 12:58 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I feel for you.
Would it help if you told the school to call your DH instead of your in case you can't answer the call and that they write it down in their records?
IMHO it's time to put do an your foot and tell them that because your work you are able to pay tuition. That tuition pays for the staff's salaries.

I did put my foot down before. But it still happens. They decided to do an in class activity but needed parents to reserve a time so not everyone was there at the same time. They Didnt send it out via email but through a flyer that was brought home with my kid. A relative did pickup on that day (we swap off) so I didnt see it until 2 hours later. I immediately sent in an email saying I need the earliest slot. I was told it was booked right away. I came in the next morning and nicely asked if I can be squeezed in. Nope. I said a SAHM can take the slot half an hour later. I said I was at work and didnt see the flyer as they didnt email it out! Yes it is annoying for that other mom but otherwise I cant make it. Secretary refused to even ask. Refused to listen that working moms need to get priority on these things. Refused to add 1 more chair for me. Told her I work full time and I will lose my job and not be able to pay tuition and her salary otherwise. Husband started work then even earlier and was less flexible at the time (I would still be late to work but not too bad that they would reprimand me).
Still refused. And judged me repeatedly that if it was important I would find a way. And that it was my fault. And that I shouldn't work so much.
Finally I told the secretary that SHE could be the one to tell my little 3 year old they would be the only one there without a mommy or tatte to do the project with. And that it was the secretary's fault.
Somehow magically a chair was there for me. When it was impossible before.

Let's just say people are judgy and ridiculous. Twisted Evil

amother

Eggshell

Tue, May 10 2022, 12:58 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

I don't know where you live, but where I do, this is a tiny minority, if it exists at all.
Most women that I know would absolutely love to work very part-time or not at all, but don't have that luxury.

amother

Cherry

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:02 pm

chmom wrote:

I did not say that it's wrong for women to work. I did not say that women that want to work for stimulation, shouldn't be doing so. Just don't neglect your family. Don't put work first. If a women wants to work for the stimulation, gezunterheit. Just make sure you have proper childcare arrangements and don't neglect your kids because you need stimulation. Our kids well being comes before designer clothing and fancy homes. I'm sure kids would rather have their mom home when they get home from school that veja sneakers and Moschino jackets.

HonesttoGod

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:05 pm

Honestly I think the judgment comes from those that work the golden hours 10-2.
There are a lot of them in the tri state area especially.

So anyone who stays home all day obviously is bored and doesn’t need the $ and anyone who works full time is crazy because their kids must struggle and be lonely and neglected bla bla.

But realistically many people can’t work those golden hours so yes we have to make a choice which way to make it work.

amother

NeonOrange

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:15 pm

amother [ Mocha ] wrote:

I'm sorry but this school sounds ridiculous. no school is so nasty.

keym

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:24 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

.
One second.
You know multiple families that don't need the wife's parnasa at all yet she's working 40+ hours a week? And buying designer and lavish vacations? And has preschool age kids? And doesn't have ft help to see to the kids?
What community is this?

amother

Mocha

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:25 pm

I wish I was working just for stimulation. Or to afford a luxury home, pesach hotel, name brand clothing...

I cant work only while my kids are in school. Because no jobs like that where I live besides in a school. And while I tried to get a school based job even at a reduced salary (or to cover tuition) I couldnt. Too "over qualified". And DH isnt a Rabbi. Yep that matters for some reason.
Anywhere else would not exist or I couldnt pay tuition from it.

Dont judge working moms!! Unless you are willing to sponsor rent, tuition, and food. (We shop at not frum places wherever possible. We dont wear designer anything.)

amother

Cherry

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:35 pm

keym wrote:

Yes, unfortunately many in my neighborhood have the attitude that kids can go and come home from school by themselves from a very young age. There are some very rich families in our community that the women work but they don't hire babysitters to be there when the kids come home. Yes, many mom's do need to work for parnasa. I understand that. What I don't understand is the lack of proper childcare arrangements and neglect that I see going on a daily basis. Having to work for parnasa is not an excuse to leave little kids home by themselves and for a 9 year old to watch 3 younger siblings on a daily basis. If a mom has to work or wants to work, making proper childcare arrangements is part of working.

keym

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:44 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

Ok. But you're lumping lots of things together.

1) mothers who have to work and aren't there for their kids in the morning, night, plays
2) mothers who work and don't NEED to and then do Designer and lavish vacations
3) mothers who don't arrange sufficient childcare coverage

People are getting defensive because you're combining them all together and then saying that you judge mothers who work.

Most mothers who work ft arrange sufficient childcare.

amother

Cherry

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:56 pm

keym wrote:

I didn't mean to lump them all together. I did NOT say that I judge mothers that work. I said that I judge working mothers that their kids end up being neglected because of that.
My point is basically that if a mother wants or needs to work, they should make sure to arrange proper childcare and that the kids don't get neglected. The scenarios I mentioned upthread, are one's that I witness on a daily/regular basis. Some by mom's that have to work and some by mom's that choose to work.

amother

Marigold

Tue, May 10 2022, 1:58 pm

I am a SAHM after being a full time working SINGLE mom for many years.

No we can not afford it. Absolutely not. But right now the place for me is to be home. DD has transformed since I stopped working and I’m home when she goes off to school and home when she comes home.

I’m working really hard on myself not to judge any1. Period. If you need to work, for whatever reason, you do you. If you need to be a SAHM, if you can afford it or not, kudos to you. I’ve been in both shoes. I understand both sides.

But what really hurts me, (I’m very sensitive to child neglect) is to see kids suffering. A kid my DD’s age (8-9 years) is always over at our house. She has a healthy appetite and eats a lot. She’s very emotional. It’s hard for her to see 2 stable, loving parents home, sitting down for family dinner etc. She keeps coming to tattletale just to get some attention from us.

Her mother completely ignores me. A thank you would have been nice. Some money (she knows were tight and that her kid eat full meals + by us) I’m resentful and try to set boundaries but it’s so hard to say no to an innocent kid.

If you work full time set up childcare arrangements. Pay people to fill in for you. Acknowledge them, communicate with them. I hired a high school girl from DD’s school to come home with her and do homework etc. There are options besides neglecting or leaving them to fend for themselves.

Working to provide for your kids is pointless if their basic needs are not met.

Again, I don’t work and we are really struggling financially.

Eta
Sometimes the money I paid for childcare was more than I was getting paid for these hours. But it was an investment, building my name and or working on showing my worth so I can eventually adjust my schedule accordingly.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:00 pm

amother [ Mocha ] wrote:

What kind of a school is this?
It's about time to arrange a meeting with the principal and file a complaint because of the secretary's behaviour.

keym

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:05 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

So then you judge parents who don't arrange childcare. Period. Whether they're working, cooking or at the spa.
Honestly, so do I, though I'm working on myself.

And truthfully the parents that you describe will neglect their kids even if they weren't working. Small comfort, but the kids have clothing, tuition paid, food while they're mother's working.
The alternative is to be neglected and not have what they need.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:07 pm

chmom wrote:

WHERE IS THE DAD IN THIS SCENARIO? Why is he not responsible for any of these tasks?

If the dad isn't doing it then the mom has to. It's not an excuse to say, "well dh could've been there so it's not my fault".

Btw I was very upset by the post because it lumped missing school performances and serving cereal and soup for dinner with neglect and abandonment.

I feel bad for the kids whose parents can't come to their performances and I feel bad for kids who can't have more variety in their meals but none of these are a safety issue. I am angry about young children who are left alone.

amother

Mayflower

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:10 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

My mother didn't work and we were neglected. She was rarely home when we came home, she didn't take care of the house, we didn't have supper till late or one of us (as young pre-teens) put it up.....we learned to fend for ourselves.

Why the judgement on working mothers? How about just judging mothers who are neglectful of their kids, for whatever reason?

Maybe had my mother worked, I couldn've at least had a few basic things that everyone else seemed to have....

signed,

a working mom who is home when her kids get home, takes care of the house, and sees to their needs.

amother

Mayflower

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:12 pm

amother [ Cherry ] wrote:

yeah, and don't do all of these things while supposedly calling yourself a SAHM either.

amother

Cherry

Tue, May 10 2022, 2:13 pm

keym wrote:

Yes and no. If the mother wouldn't be running to work in the morning, a toddler and baby wouldn't be left alone in the house every morning till dad comes home 15 minutes later. If the mom wouldn't be at work, then the nursery kid wouldn't stand outside crying every single day till mom comes home. If mom wouldn't be working, then the 9 year old wouldn't be babysitting 3 younger siblings every day for an hour till mom comes home. Yes, SAHM may also not be home for the bus once in a blue moon, but this isn't the official schedule on a daily basis.