The imperfect chessed thread. The other side off the story

amother

Darkblue

Wed, May 18 2022, 12:48 pm

I have an imperfect chessed story that happened last week. A story where I’d hope the receiver would be fan lkaf zchus.

I live in Israel and I was part of an Israeli meal train for an American woman who just had a baby. The shabbos meals were split up where Friday night included appetizer, main dish and 2 side dishes. This is standard for our shul. I signed up to make the main dish for shabbos day. Right before I was about to bring the food over I checked the list one more time and I noticed that for Friday night someone wrote they were making chicken soup as the appetizer and fish for the main . This is very common for Israeli families where I live. Being that the family with the newborn was American, I figured that the Friday night meal might not be sufficient for them.
There was no time to defrost more chicken or go out and buy chicken, so I pulled a few pieces of frozen homemade shnitzel out of my freezer and gave it to them with the other chicken that I made for them. They have no idea who signed up for appetizer, main…. And what was for shabbos day and what Friday night. All they saw was that I brought them a nice amount of chicken and few pieces of frozen homemade shnitzel. They have no idea that the shnitzel was not supposed to be a main dish. I didn’t sign up to make 2 main dishes, sending the shnitzel was just an extra gesture on my part.

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I was very disheartened by the coming downstairs thread yesterday.
I am a totally normal person and that could have totally happened to me. Yes, even the comment part. And of course I would have realized 20 minutes later once I picked up/dropped of/got home/got off the meeting/Got the results from the Dr. etc..
But I was shocked at the people that were so ready to just rip apart the woman who cooked.
So this thread is about all the times that we went out of our way, did a huge chessed, but it was imperfect for whatever reason.
Maybe we can show that it does not have to be perfect for it to be great.
I'll start

Late last night somebody called to ask if I could watch their baby because the wife is in labor. (Turns out I was their plan all along) There wasn't any other answer aside from yes at that point. And I am also happy to do it- I just wished I would have been told earlier that I was the plan.
The baby stayed the night with us and at the earliest minute possible I dropped him off at his babysitter without dressing him or changing his diaper.
I was in such a rush to get to work and had not factored in the extra time in the morning or the extra stop on my carpool route.

amother

Dimgray

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:02 pm

watergirl wrote:

I imagine if we took the time to break down your community, what people eat on any given night, etc. then these threads would have a very different feel. Women (chassidishe ladies, based off what I read on the whats for supper threads both in the regular forum and in the CV) who eat soup, chicken or meat main, a cooked veg, a salad, and a dessert every night will be livid with chicken and potatos. Women who are used to smaller, more basic meals would be very very happy with chicken and potatos. Also community expectations are so different, we know chaddishe ladies view recovery from birth very differently than non.

Note - this is in NO way bashing, I am just pointing out observed differences based on this site.

Maybe the divide with expectations and ability to push oneselves is not just community but also based on stage in life, size of the volunteer's own family, job situation (I.e. full vs part time, commute vs work from home, flexible schedule vs rigid hours etc). I have found that a lot of people with a more flexible lifestyle often take certain things for granted and don't understand the reality of others' lives. They really truly don't understand why someone might find it difficult to add a soup and cut up melon to a more basic meal of chicken and potatoes, and why the delivery aspect might be why someone declines to participate in a meal train in the first place (not because of the food prep).

For example, I have a friend who just started working full time for the first time in her life and she is completely overwhelmed. Bear in mind, she's in her mid 40s, all her kids are teens, her oldest does most of the cooking (because she wants to, not because she has to) and still, she's falling apart because she's never dealt with commuting early in the morning and evening, having to work Friday afternoons and on erev YT, Purim, chol hamoed, etc. She had plenty to complain about to me back in the day when she was getting meals after having babies 15 years ago, most sent over by friends working full time. I'm sure if I'd remind her (no worries, I won't) she'd be retroactively embarrassed at how clueless and entitled she was back then.

amother

Calendula

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:13 pm

Sorry but anyone upset about chicken and potatoes is entitled. You might make more for your family. Yes a vegetable is nice but seriously- if you absolutely must have one at every meal and cant skip when you just gave birth... DH can run out and buy a few cucumbers and tomatoes and make an Israeli salad. Or open a can of pickles. Or truly- it isnt the end of the world to not have a veggie one night!!

I am due soon IYH and will accept anything anyone gives. I dont expect anything and just feel touched anyone thought of us. And have been that way in the past. I have clearly been given Shabbos Leftovers on a Sunday for dinner. I was happy and grateful anyone thought of me and gave me something somewhat balanced. I feel touched and pampered by getting anything. Even if it is takeout. Or "just potatoes and chicken".

You don't need a soup or appetizer on a weeknight. You definitely dont need dessert ever.

And guess what- you had 9 months to plan for this. It isnt usually an emergency. (Not talking about preemies or NICU stays etc). We have a few frozen meals for those days when either my kids refuse the food sent or no one sends or it is late...
And guess what. Husbands aren't incapable of helping out too. They can learn to cook/reheat food. It isnt against the law or impossible. Dont baby your husband and he can learn to step up and help out.
This is a chessed and accept it as one. Not as something you paid for and "deserve".

amother

Blush

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:16 pm

amother [ Calendula ] wrote:

I would gladly cook for you.

Ema of 5

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:34 pm

Heyaaa wrote:

She could've suggested somewhere in the lobby to put it for her dh to bring up if it was so difficult.

I don't know if anyone is at fault but I do know who isn't and it isn't the lady who did the shopped for, cooked, packaged, and drove over the food at a difficult enough hour that there was no parking nearby.

90% of the people were bashing the lady for doing a Chessed and for being unable to find parking.

You’re talking about one specific situation, which I may or may not have read about. I’m talking about in general. When you are making a meal for someone, YOU should make sure that YOU have a way to get it to them, including getting it to the front door. Better to err on the side of caution and assume the mom can’t come out to get it.
You’re looking to blame someone, I’m not. I’m making a general statement.

amother

Wheat

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:35 pm

I love how everyone is rushing to come up with reasons why the new mother could’ve not walked to the door.

Has anyone thought that the woman delivering may also have had something going on unexpectedly? Her life didn’t come to a standstill because she offered to make dinner.

What if A child needed to be taken to a doctor, home from school, something else came up?

Imagine if she was the one coming up here to write how she had crazy day.... and was also making dinner for a new mother.... and she was rushing to be at an unexpected appointment.... and then she couldn’t find parking.... and the new mother made a big deal about coming down... etc...

In my opinion, anyone who is the taker, has no business being entitled in any which way.

amother

Navy

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:58 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

Emor me'at v'asei harbei

amother

Lightblue

Wed, May 18 2022, 1:59 pm

watergirl wrote:

Ok is this hyperbole? Hours and slaving away? I wonder what I'm doing wrong because when I make a weeknight meal for a new mom, it takes about 15 minutes tops.

Cut up an onion, throw on the bottom of the pan - 1 minute.
Open package of chicken legs, put on top on chicken - 1 minute.
Top with spices - 2 minutes maybe.
Cover with foil and put in the oven - 30 seconds.

Cut up potatos, season and a bit of oil, throw on cookie sheet - 5 minutes.

It cooks while I do other things. Maybe I'll also send a salad, which takes:
open bag of salad, throw in a tin - 20 seconds.
cut cucumbers and tomatos, throw in tin - 2 minutes.

Cover and drive over depends but no more than 15 minutes.

There is no reason to make more, no reason to send more. If I do dairy, it's baked ziti and roasted vegetables which takes the same amount of time. If I send pareve, it's falafel which takes even less time.

I'm not that poster, but I believe it's not hyperbole at all.
Making supper for a new mom involves the following:
Making sure you have all the ingredients in the house.
Making sure you have all the correct containers to package it in.
Cooking time - yes, can take me a few hours. I don't even do fancy, fancy - just everything takes time.
Packaging up.
Delivering.

I think that's the issue with the other thread. The people tearing the women apart think it takes just 15 minutes to make supper. Those that were horrified, it takes much longer and takes over their entire day when they do this for someone.

So cancelling all their hard work (better not to get it at all) because they made a bad judgement call rubbed many of us the wrong way.

amother

Powderblue

Wed, May 18 2022, 2:02 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

But what if she really can’t? What if she can’t put the baby down? Or what if she’s having a hard time getting around? Or what if she can’t maneuver holding all the food without it causing her pain? As someone said in one of the other threads, taking a second person isn’t such a bad idea, assuming someone is around.

I don’t generally take meals but for me stairs make me bleed more. Not to mention it’s adds pressure to sore areas.

DREAMING

Wed, May 18 2022, 2:03 pm

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

I see it more as of course the person receiving the chessed should say thank you. But we as the chessed giver should strive to do it in a way that the receiver is actually benefiting.

In this case of the baby the one needing the chessed didn’t lose out by you not dressing the baby. So I don’t think it’s the same. There are many people post birth that cannot walk or get to the door in that case sometimes eating a box of crackers is easier for them.

It’s like we always learned about bikur cholim don’t go in a way that causes them issues. And don’t have the attitude of well be glad I at least showed up you don’t get to have preferences and needs.

So yeah sometimes things go wrong. But to have the attitude of be glad I did it, who cares if it caused you pain is not in line with the Torah. And yes we can all use improvement no need for people to have gotten so offended.

This. All the way

amother

Lemon

Wed, May 18 2022, 2:04 pm

watergirl wrote:

The first thing that struck me is that you work really fast!

I'd need to start with bend down to open the bottom cupboard and maneuver the pan out. Bring it over to the counter. Back to fridge to take out the chicken and the onion. Depending on quantity that could be 2 trips. Get out chopping board, knife, a bag for the garbage. Choppimg the onion definitely will take me more rhan a min. Etc etc you get the idea.

Me, I haven't joined a meal train in years. I also have never signed up for 1. I occasionally will send meals to a good friend and vice versa.

Years ago my shul did meal trains for about a year, and after 1 birth I was informed which nights at be getting meals and from whom. Came one night we were waiting and waiting until eventually I made supper for the kids myself, I don't remember what I made. Very possibly cereal and milk. I reckoned the woman for that night simply forgot. Sure enough the next day she called me she felt she was mortified she completely forgot! Honestly I totally wasn't upset or annoyed, we are all busy and have alot on our minds, it happens.

watergirl

Wed, May 18 2022, 2:05 pm

amother [ Lightblue ] wrote:

Can you please help me understand this a bit better? If I know I am making a meal for someone, I do not do a special shopping trip, I make sure I have what I need when I do a regular shopping.

What are you making that it takes you a few hours to cook, in terms of active preparation?
How are you packaging that it takes you time? I make the food in the tin, then cover it with foil, and carry it to my car. What is there to package?

If it takes literally over your entire day to make dinner for someone, and if this is not hyperbole, then truly, there are elements of your hardship you are taking onto yourself.