S/o checking kids clothing tags

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 3:01 am

LittleDucky wrote:

But hopefully you arent saying something inappropriate to the kid when mom is not around. There is a big difference if you need to speak sternly to a kid when mom isnt around for the kids benefit (hands are not for hitting) and you touching a kid and looking at it for your benefit.
Why are you asking a toddler if their father has a new car? That's an odd question. Asking about their day including breakfast is educational and has a purpose to help the kid.
Even asking a kid where their mom bought an outfit isnt done to help the kid. At best you satisfy your curiosity. At worst you make them feel bad and self conscious- not a fancy store (walmart vs a boutique), hand me downs, a gemach, "my mommy gets bags dropped off on our porch".

Why are you as a teacher doing something that isnt there to help the child?!? And can be harmful to their development?

I work with this age children. I can hear a child saying for the past week daddy's getting a new car and that is the only news they have to say. And to ask if daddy got the car is perfectly legit in that context. For many children, particularly boys the car is very exciting.
I think people in education can't really understand what it's like to work with little children and what is normal and fine. I don't think any other profession gets as much scrutiny or people's criticism.

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 3:03 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

There's a simple litmus test for this. The Morah needs to imagine that every single interaction gets relayed to the parents. In this case, would the Morah be ok with Moishy telling his mommy "Morah looked at the tags on my shirt and pants today"? If this isn't something she's comfortable with, she shouldn't be taking advantage of a child who can't express himself yet.

I would take it as a compliment that my child was dressed that well that they were interested in the clothing.

Ema of 5

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 7:10 am

amother [ SandyBrown ] wrote:

Yes its nosy.
Yes its yenta ish.

But thats as far as it goes.
Its not a terrible thing like inappropriate touch.
0bviously child shouldnt be made to feel uncomfortable eg turn around, stay still a second.

But to do it discreetly, I think its ok.

Are.people saying its wrong because they feel judged, or wrong because of the touching ??

Bevause I dont think its so bad about the touching part...

Inappropriate does not just mean inappropriate touch. A teacher shouldn’t be checking the labels on her students clothing, even if they are 6 months old.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 7:19 am

amother [ Dimgray ] wrote:

I do it to kids(family or friends, I’m not a teacher) who are comfortable with me and I ask them permission first.

Btw, a teacher of little kids touches them anyway so what do you care?

I’d care! I’ve been a teacher who has to change diapers and would never do that. It’s unnecessary and therefore not okay. If you need to know, you can ask.
Definitely not okay to go up to a kid in shul and stick your hand in their top to check the label! It’s not just checking a label, you have to reach in to a skirt/pants or a top/dress and that’s so not okay!

amother

Charcoal

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 7:53 am

amother [ Tiffanyblue ] wrote:

What?! I can’t believe you’d say this? No it’s not the biggest offence but it is inappropriate and if ppl prefer not then it’s definitely something you need to respect. Your reaction is “fire me”?! Just wow!

You guys are way overreacting. BH the parent body in my class is not like that. They appreciate the hard work I do. So once in a while I did it if I recognize a top or I don’t even remember the reason. Those who care really really shouldn’t send to daycares if they are that uptight as things could be worse than checking tags on a toddler.

salt

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 7:58 am

People are really overreacting.
If the kid doesn't even know you are doing it, then it's fine.
It's like if I'm at work and I peek at the label in my colleagues cardigan that's on the back of her chair while she's not at her desk.
Right, I wouldn't do it when she's around, and I'm not that desperate to know that I'll ask her (if we're not close), but I'm just a little curious or dare I say nosey, and will peek when she's not looking.
No crime done.

Heyaaa

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:01 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

The comment you are responding to is so weird to me.

If you don’t trust your preschool kid’s teacher then why are you leaving him there for hours every single day for a year?

watergirl

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:07 am

I'll post this under my own name. I have worked at many preschools over the years, some Jewish, one or two frum, others not at all, and none on the East Coast (for what it's worth). So it's not a frum thing, and it's not an East Coast thing.

Checking tags is something I've seen many teachers do. And no, it's not done because they think the top is really cute and want to know the brand. It's a bunch of judgmental teachers, looking at labels to satisfy their nosey bones. Come holiday time and the end of the year, these are the salty teachers complaining about the "stingy" gifts they received, or you hear a lot of "this parent dresses their child in all Nordstrom brands and they did not send a gift at all - typical".

Asking the students about the new car, or the extension on their house they are building? Some teachers are asking because they are trying to encourage the kids to share and bridge that home/school gap. Most are being nosey.

Is this something I did when I was a young teachers assistant and got caught up in the culture? Yes. Am I proud of it? No. At the time, I even felt gross about it. The places where people do this are toxic environments for this and other reasons.

I want to be clear, because I know some reading this will jump to be defensive - I am in no way insinuating ALL people do this because they are nosey. I am very sure there are those who just like the top and want to buy it for their own kid. I am saying there are also those, and I would say it's more the case than not, who are just being nosey.

I always think it's inappropriate, and I very much regret getting caught up in it myself when I was a young preschool assistant. All touch of young children should have a tachlis which directly benefits ONLY the child. Change their shirt. Change their diaper. If you happen to notice a label, fine. To go to the child and intentionally tug their shirt to see the label is needless touch, benefiting the teacher, not the child. It's inappropriate.

Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:07 am

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

The child realizes. How do little kids learn stuff? They see, hear and absorb everything from the environment. They pick up much more stuff than you can ever imagine. They may not be able to express it to their parents, but they see and absorb.

Either way, this obsession with fashion for these little babies (in some communities) is just mind boggling. This just highlights how far its gone. Think about it for a second. We have adults running around, checking clothing tags on TWO years olds! If you'd take a step back and view this in a different society, what would you call it? Imagine if it were the secular society doing this, what kind of derogatory terms would we come up for this behavior?

This!

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:15 am

I sometimes shop in a 2nd hand place with lots of upscale customers. In the past I noticed that once in a while the tag was missing. I thought it was odd.
Thanks to imamother the mystery is solved.
Either the fancy lady bought a cheaper garment and cut off tag (so that her fancy friends wouldn't look down on her) or she bought an expensive garment and cut off the tag so she wouldn't be judged for spending tons of money for expensive branded clothing.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:18 am

I'm a teacher and very occasionally check tags. I do it because I think the article of clothing is really nice and I want to buy it for my own child. I always ask first if I can check the tag.im not vague about it. I don't say can I see something for a minute or stick my hand down their shirt. Just turn the neckline inside out in the back.
As for asking about the daddy's new car, well what do you think we do all day?? We talk to the children, that's how they learn we converse about anything of interest to the child. The most important thing you can do for your child's development is talking( or reading) with them.
I treat each child with respect and love. stop the judgement omg

Heyaaa

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:19 am

Maybe because I grew up in it but I really don’t see the problem. I don’t see it as being fashion obsessed. Conformity is a real social standard in certain chareidi communities so it’s largely expected that people will want to dress like others. Many people are happy to let others know where they bought their clothes and really don’t mind if their friend checks the label. When self expression is frowned upon and fitting in is important then this is not considered so strange.

I’m sure that other communities find this strange but I’m sure those communities have other behaviors that are considered strange by those who think this is normal. We are all different and that’s what makes the world so colorful.

Simple1

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:20 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I know someone who has sensory issues and always removes the tags because it’s uncomfortable.

Heyaaa

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:22 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Or maybe the threads became loose or maybe it was itchy. Usually the reason is that certain brands aren’t allowed to sell the overstock or mildly imperfect clothing while branded for legal reasons so the manufacturer took it off.

Heyaaa

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:26 am

watergirl wrote:

You conflated a few things.

Counting someone else’s checkbook is a problem.

Not showing proper hakaras hatov within your means, also a problem.

Reaching deep inside someone’s clothes to see a label, big problem.

Asking someone where their mommy bought their shirt and if the kid doesn’t know then asking if you can see the label, then flipping out the tag by basically touching the collar, a bit nosy but not such a problem.

imaima

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:28 am

LittleDucky wrote:

Dont do it. Just dont. Dont touch my kid or their clothing to see what the tag says or what brand it is. Just dont.
It is an invasion of privacy, of personal space, and is rude. You are teaching kids it's ok for someone besides their parent to touch them without permission and totally normal for people to touch their clothing.
I dont care who you are. Cousin, sister in law, teacher, lady at shul....
Ask me. I will gladly say.

Kinda see the reason to dress your kid into clothes with visible brand name, so noone has to wonder and touch your kid../

Bnei Berak 10

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:29 am

watergirl wrote:

Thanks for posting your experiences.
I would immediately cut off all tags on the kids clothes. Nobody wants to be judged based on what the child wears.
I could have gotten the clothing for free from my rich SIL who hands me down almost brand new items since I myself is dirt poor and that's why the teachers got "stingy gifts"

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Jun 08 2022, 8:35 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Actually, those "other" communities are the ones that make the world colorful. Your communities make the world black and white.