Is she obligated to pay? Waiting for Rav reply

watergirl

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:41 pm

amother [ Currant ] wrote:

If the assistant couldn't handle the child and needed to call mom to pick up then why does mom need to pay?

It is not clear if the assistant could not handle the child or did not want to do more. OP said after my post about this that this is a child who does not do well with change, still, I've been the assistant in this kind of situation before, almost literally. You deal with it and the child calms down. I've been there... I've never ever called a parent. The child always calms down.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I didn't say that I went out for a hour, I did that once, when I had to take my son to a dentist appointment. We're talking about 6 toddlers, 3 who are 2.5 and 3 are younger but really manageable. I said that I pop out to make supper, or run on a quick errand (grocery store around the corner) do the washing etc whilst popping in and out to be there for the kids.
I do the main things with them like davenning etc.

Regardless, that has nothing to do with this particular question. That’s a different question, in and of itself.

amother

Steelblue

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:46 pm

flowerpower wrote:

My friend does a group in her house. She goes away 2 times a year to recharge. She works hard. She needs it. The kids still come and they follow the same schedule. The mother should definitely pay

But it isnt the exact same schedule. And it isnt the exact same staff. And it wasnt told in advance.
Yes, Morahs should get time off. But this isnt the same as a Morah saying in September "so I usually go away for 3 days in December and again in June. The dates are still to be determined and it might be in a different month depending on the situation. I prep ahead of time, all activities and projects will be prepared and ready, we will have the same schedule, an extra assistant, and work hard to make it as seamless as possible a transition while I am away."

This is instead: when mom got notified the last day before Morah left "hey I am leaving for 3 days, I planned this a while ago but didnt tell you as I didnt want complaints, there is someone new coming whom you and the kids have never met to help out, and the hours will be different".

Yes, everyone needs to recharge and relax. But how she did it makes the difference. And honestly, makes a big difference in the halachic shaila. It is a completely different scenario.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:47 pm

Not at all!!! I miss understood her thought she said from helper but she didn't!! Not sure why he was soo upset:( sorry to bother you!

I text her a really nice message back, this is what she replied with so we're all good I think. 😅It's obviously because of the change that he's upset but it's a shame that I fogger had to get involved when I take 3 days off the entire year! Nevermind.

Maybe she's on imamother Smile

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:49 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

How can she be there? She said she is away. I think you are not understanding the post. She’s not away every day. She went away for a few days, and this kid is unsettled because in addition to the regular assistant (who is now the main Morah for a few days) there is also a new Morah/assistant.
My personal opinion is that it depends how you take payment. If it’s hourly or daily, then I don’t think she would need to pay for the time he is not there. But if it’s monthly, then it’s the same every month, and it needs to be paid.

I take weekly payment.
I don't charge for vacations, when the kids are off school. (winter, summer, half term vacations)

This is term time so I can't just not run the group whilst I'm away.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:54 pm

amother [ Steelblue ] wrote:

They all preferred to have it start 25 minutes later to be in my house, same setting. As opposed to my helpers house with the same hours.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 2:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I take weekly payment.
I don't charge for vacations, when the kids are off school. (winter, summer, half term vacations)

This is term time so I can't just not run the group whilst I'm away.

So if you take weekly payments and she is not sending him for two days, I would just make an adjustment to the payment.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:04 pm

amother [ Currant ] wrote:

Its not the same thing. The teacher isn't there which is why the child can't handle coming.

Do you send to a playgroup.

My kids Morah married off this year and for 2 weeks there was a sub. My kid is sensitive. It was not ideal but I would never not pay.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:05 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

So if you take weekly payments and she is not sending him for two days, I would just make an adjustment to the payment.

I guess I'll offer her the discount if, when I return I hear that she didn't send for 2 days.
It just hurts me to make an even bigger loss, especially after working so hard to make all the necessary arrangements.

amother

Chambray

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:12 pm

Op I'm a playgroup morah. I totally understand you. I think she should pay but if she doesnt ,don't make a big deal about it.
You made arrangements it's too bad if she doesn't like the arrangements. I actually had a similar story( I took a child from a different playgroup. Morah had a baby but mother didn't like the new arrangements and sent to me. I asked her if she would have to pay the other place also and she said yes because the morah hired a sub)
Give her back the money and swallow the loss. It will cause you less aggravation on the long run and your reputation will still be intact.
(I didn't read the entire thread!)

amother

Pear

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:21 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Do you send to a playgroup.

My kids Morah married off this year and for 2 weeks there was a sub. My kid is sensitive. It was not ideal but I would never not pay.

This!!! I raised 7 kids and sent to a variety of places. And of course she can take a vacation and as long as the place is open with adequate substitutes, the parents have to pay. And I didn't read the other thread, but if she's taking her child for an appt and has a sub, also totally normal. (I had one babysitter who's husband was quite chashuv. She would sometimes leave the kids with him, which I found funny. But still ok!)

naturalmom5

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:26 pm

You are ppaid to be there, not go somewhere else

You dont know the reason that child is insecure around new people
Either do your job properly and professionally or refund that mother for the time you are away TMI

amother

Apple

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:29 pm

I think it's unfair to send a child home because he's having trouble adjusting to a temporary playgroup change. I think you should only charge her if you can guarantee that the child won't get sent home again.
It's not fair to make her pay and then refuse to care for the child, and cause the inconvenience of her having to come pick him up during the day.

amother

Steelblue

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:39 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

They all preferred to have it start 25 minutes later to be in my house, same setting. As opposed to my helpers house with the same hours.

The point is that it is still NOT the same exact program. Either it is a different timing or a different location. You think the kids would adjust well to a whole new place?

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:41 pm

amother [ Apple ] wrote:

It sounded like he wouldn't stop crying Sad

Is it fair to keep the child there crying? I'm not sure, I'd feel bad for the kid.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:46 pm

amother [ Steelblue ] wrote:

The point is that it is still NOT the same exact program. Either it is a different timing or a different location. You think the kids would adjust well to a whole new place?

We're not talking about that now on this thread. It's about if this particular mother should pay now or not.

And the point is that there is still a program!! So yes, the parents need to pay.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:52 pm

So some on this thread seem to think that if I'm sick, pay a sub, one kid cries and gets sent home early, they shouldn't pay me? But I'm paying the sub so I should lose even more money?! It really doesn't make much sense.
I'll see what the Rav says. Either way the mother seems to have regretted texting me in the first place.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:55 pm

I felt really bad calling her but he wouldn't really calm down. I thought maybe something was wrong as he doesn't suddenly cry like that. Thought he was tired so wanted to confirm she was happy for him to sleep if he wanted. X (new helper) was very good. Don't think it was her as he started over an hour later. She was even sitting near him playing with them all.

Message from the main assistant.

amother

Leaf

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 3:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Maybe he’s not feeling well or a kid hurt him. Why is she assuming it’s the assistant that caused it.

amother

Mon, Jun 13 2022, 4:01 pm

amother [ Leaf ] wrote:

Maybe he’s not feeling well or a kid hurt him. Why is she assuming it’s the assistant that caused it.

The mother is assuming that.
It's possible it's from the change but my helper is not to know and I think she did the right thing.