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Do you have lace wigs?
Yes, lace top.  
 31%  [ 71 ]
Yes, lace front.  
 18%  [ 42 ]
No, just skin top.  
 49%  [ 110 ]
Total Votes : 223



Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 2:21 am
Since you ask:

I'm very happy that people are enjoying doing their mitzvah, however they do it.

But, for myself, I do find the total realism of lace wigs very disconcerting.
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amother




Stoneblue
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 2:38 am
I never thought I would get one as I dont like the idea of people not being able to tell if I’m covering my hair. But honestly nowadays they’re so popular (at least in my community) and I don’t think mine looks that spot on that you wouldn’t be able to tell. I did ask my rav before buying it and he said there was no halachic problem with it. I only got it recently but it is sooooo much more comfortable then a skin top.
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amother




Acacia
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 4:08 am
I wouldnt say over 35, thats pushing it.

I do see some older women wearing it and for a general everyday look I really find it can make ppl look older.
Its a shame that ppl are rushing to buy them and theyr all super expensive to be a clone of the next person.

Nothong wrong with our faces looking older but it can be quite a severe look with a straight middle part and so so flat.
Doesnt necessarily bring out your best features.
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 4:55 am
amother Narcissus wrote:
According to my yeshivish Rav, in monsey ny, wearing a lace wig is doing the mitzvah just as "right" as the old shaitels because we hold according to Rav Moshe's opinion, that the mitzvah of kisui rosh has nothing at all to do with looking like your hair is covered, and it may look natural.

Happens to be I dont own a lace wig.

But saying you're not knocking those who wear lace, but implying that they arent really doing the mitzvah as "right" as possible, is rubbing me the wrong way.

Why not assume that they asked their Rav, and he holds it is lechatchila totally fine?


I try never to assume things about others. I answered OPs question regarding my own reasoning.
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 5:01 am
DustyDiamonds wrote:
While I hear your premise, I have some questions:

Do you only eat in a sukkah built without any metal?

Do you use the largest size shiur for marror and matzah and wine?

Do you always sit down and look in a bencher each time you say al hamichya and borei nefashos and bircat hamazon?

Do you discard boxes of cereal if the baby touched it before someone washed negel vasser on her hands? Do you wash negel vasser each time you touch above your child’s elbow?

If so, I applaud you for doing so many mitzvos so extensively, quote “all the way”!


Some yes some no, but mitzvos are not all or nothing. Never heard of metal not being allowed on Sukkas. Our sukka is wood with minimal metal parts to keep it together. But as I said do what’s right for you.
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amother




Topaz
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 5:42 am
amother Valerian wrote:
If you're over 35 it looks like grandma in a tutu skirt.

Pls don't.


Curious how old you are.
35 is really young.
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amother




Begonia
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 5:50 am
.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 6:43 am
amother Valerian wrote:
A lace top wig is like wearing a kippa with a wig or hair covering it and asking "whats wrong".

And yes my family is very makpid with negel vasser including baby so we do dump food that was touched by non washers but how's that or anything your wrote like a lace top?


Actually, my father used to wear a toupee for work years ago. He was advised to do this by R' Yaakov Kaminetsky.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 6:45 am
There are many Rabbanim that have come out against lace top/front wigs actually stating that they are halachically forbidden. (I know that there are Poskim that do permit such wigs halachically but it does not mean that they think such wigs are in the spirit of the law)

But there also many Rabbanim that have spoken against natrual, beautifying wigs way before the lace wigs existed.

I think that this is not really about lace or not. It is really about a woman understanding why she is covering her hair and then trying to keep the mitzvah in the correct way. There is always a way to get around keeping a mitzvah in spirit. A woman could wear a skin tight provocative dress that covers everything. She is still failing in modesty and will still provoke men.

It is the same with the wigs- the point of covering the hair is to lessen a married woman's attraction to other men now that she is an eishes ish (and yes there are many Torah sources for this). Hair is so beautifying and this beauty is meant for her husband only. So wearing a beautifying natural wig is in a sense like wearing a skin tight outfit. The hair is physically covered but the beauty of "hair" is still there and not concealed- so it is not at all in the spirit of the mitzvah and the married woman wearing such a wig can still cause attraction from men that see her.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 6:47 am
I didn't vote in the poll because my wig is neither lace nor skin top.
I don't really have a strong opinion on lace-top wigs, but if I was up for a new one, I probably wouldn't get one since my Rav is not in favor.

When my DD's get married I imagine they will follow whatever their Chassan's Rav says.

My DD has a childhood friend who unfortunately got divorced very soon after a COVID marriage (sadly I've heard there were many of those.) I'm glad for her that there are lace wigs, so she can wear something that looks/feels natural and beautiful for her.
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amother




Sapphire
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:10 am
I generally wear scarves or hats.

In terms of my views on lace: Maybe at the start of the trend, there could have been an issue because people didn't know they existed and thought women had their hair uncovered. But today, it's become so common, anyone would (and should) just assume that you're wearing a lace if they can't tell.

Unless you're in a more insular community where it's still uncommon.
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amother




Broom
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:12 am
amother Valerian wrote:
If you're over 35 it looks like grandma in a tutu skirt.

Pls don't.
You know 35 year old grandmothers?
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amother




Broom
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:14 am
amother Acacia wrote:
I wouldnt say over 35, thats pushing it.

I do see some older women wearing it and for a general everyday look I really find it can make ppl look older.
Its a shame that ppl are rushing to buy them and theyr all super expensive to be a clone of the next person.

Nothong wrong with our faces looking older but it can be quite a severe look with a straight middle part and so so flat.
Doesnt necessarily bring out your best features.
That's just styling. You can style a lace front or top differently just like you can a more traditional wig.
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amother




Bergamot
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:16 am
happysmile1 wrote:
There are many Rabbanim that have come out against lace top/front wigs actually stating that they are halachically forbidden. (I know that there are Poskim that do permit such wigs halachically but it does not mean that they think such wigs are in the spirit of the law)

But there also many Rabbanim that have spoken against natrual, beautifying wigs way before the lace wigs existed.

I think that this is not really about lace or not. It is really about a woman understanding why she is covering her hair and then trying to keep the mitzvah in the correct way. There is always a way to get around keeping a mitzvah in spirit. A woman could wear a skin tight provocative dress that covers everything. She is still failing in modesty and will still provoke men.

It is the same with the wigs- the point of covering the hair is to lessen a married woman's attraction to other men now that she is an eishes ish (and yes there are many Torah sources for this). Hair is so beautifying and this beauty is meant for her husband only. So wearing a beautifying natural wig is in a sense like wearing a skin tight outfit. The hair is physically covered but the beauty of "hair" is still there and not concealed- so it is not at all in the spirit of the mitzvah and the married woman wearing such a wig can still cause attraction from men that see her.
No, that is never the point of covering your hair. Attraction has nothing to do with it. A married woman is most definitely allowed to make herself beautiful.
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amother




Ballota
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:40 am
amother Acacia wrote:
I wouldnt say over 35, thats pushing it.

I do see some older women wearing it and for a general everyday look I really find it can make ppl look older.
Its a shame that ppl are rushing to buy them and theyr all super expensive to be a clone of the next person.

Nothong wrong with our faces looking older but it can be quite a severe look with a straight middle part and so so flat.
Doesnt necessarily bring out your best features.


There’s an 80-something year old woman in shul who wears a lace top or front. It’s not the flat style, it looks like her previous wigs. She looks great.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:43 am
amother Valerian wrote:
If you're over 35 it looks like grandma in a tutu skirt.

Pls don't.


LOL. There's an older woman in my neighborhood who is always dressed to the nines, heels, chic short wig, etc....she is so cute and classy. My girls say they are going to be like that at her age. BE"H.
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amother




Acacia
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:46 am
amother Ballota wrote:
There’s an 80-something year old woman in shul who wears a lace top or front. It’s not the flat style, it looks like her previous wigs. She looks great.


What other style is there besides middle part?
Maybe some baby hairs to soften, but no bangs..?

I saw a woman today she couldnt have been more then 40 and really didnt look good. Any deformities or aging on face you notice so much more with such a wig
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 7:51 am
A married woman is supposed to look beautiful in her home only- for her husband only.

She should look clean, dignified, refined etc... outside when in front of other men. But looking beautiful is meant for the home only with her husband.

This is sourced in many places including "Geder Olam" by the Chofetz Chaim.

About the reason for the mitzvah of hair covering it is Torah sourced that its because hair is the main beauty of a woman and after marriage this beauty is supposed to be for her husband only at home. A married woman was commanded to cover and conceal the beauty of hair from other men, her head covering is supposed to lessen her attractiveness to men, not make her look more attractive (which is why so many Rabbanim spoke out against natural and beautifying wigs).

This paragraph written by a Rav who studied the topic in depth might help clarify the point of the head covering:

The Mishna and Gemara in Kesubos (72a-b) and the Rishonim thereon make it abundantly clear that the issue with married women appearing without covered hair while in public is that this would constitute a Tznius violation. That is why the halachic consequence of doing this—in public (not at home—the Gemara is at pains to demarcate where a woman would have to be in order to be in violation)—is that the women forfeits her Kesubah. Just like flirting with young men in the street (Kesubos 72b) would constitute an attack on the integrity of the marriage, and cannot be considered a woman’s personal violation, as (for example) eating non-kosher food would be, so too appearing in public with her hair visible is an attack on the integrity of their marriage. Why? Because a woman’s hair is attractive to men, and this facet of her feminine beauty is to be reserved for her husband. (See Torah Temimah to Bamidbar 5:18.) While a minority of poskim rule that single women too must always keep their hair covered while in public, the accepted halacha has become to allow exposing the hair when unmarried. [There is, however, the weighty position of certain Acharonim that even single girls ought not keep their hair straight and unbraided; that would be immodest even for them. Instead, they should pull their hair up so that it doesn’t flow on their shoulders.] But for married women, it is a consensus position that the hair may not be uncovered in public. Fully uncovered hair is called by the Gemara a Das Moshe (Biblical) violation, while improperly covered hair is called by the Gemara a Das Yehudis (Jewish modesty norm) violation.


I hope that this helps.
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amother




Maize
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:00 am
happysmile1 wrote:
There are many Rabbanim that have come out against lace top/front wigs actually stating that they are halachically forbidden. (I know that there are Poskim that do permit such wigs halachically but it does not mean that they think such wigs are in the spirit of the law)

But there also many Rabbanim that have spoken against natrual, beautifying wigs way before the lace wigs existed.

I think that this is not really about lace or not. It is really about a woman understanding why she is covering her hair and then trying to keep the mitzvah in the correct way. There is always a way to get around keeping a mitzvah in spirit. A woman could wear a skin tight provocative dress that covers everything. She is still failing in modesty and will still provoke men.

It is the same with the wigs- the point of covering the hair is to lessen a married woman's attraction to other men now that she is an eishes ish (and yes there are many Torah sources for this). Hair is so beautifying and this beauty is meant for her husband only. So wearing a beautifying natural wig is in a sense like wearing a skin tight outfit. The hair is physically covered but the beauty of "hair" is still there and not concealed- so it is not at all in the spirit of the mitzvah and the married woman wearing such a wig can still cause attraction from men that see her.

I don't own a natural looking wig but to me it's obvious that a Rav deciding halacha is both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
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amother




Bergamot
 

Post Fri, Sep 09 2022, 8:09 am
happysmile1 wrote:
A married woman is supposed to look beautiful in her home only- for her husband only.

She should look clean, dignified, refined etc... outside when in front of other men. But looking beautiful is meant for the home only with her husband.

This is sourced in many places including "Geder Olam" by the Chofetz Chaim.

About the reason for the mitzvah of hair covering it is Torah sourced that its because hair is the main beauty of a woman and after marriage this beauty is supposed to be for her husband only at home. A married woman was commanded to cover and conceal the beauty of hair from other men, her head covering is supposed to lessen her attractiveness to men, not make her look more attractive (which is why so many Rabbanim spoke out against natural and beautifying wigs).

This paragraph written by a Rav who studied the topic in depth might help clarify the point of the head covering:

I hope that this helps.
No this doesnt help. I didnt need help.
I have learned the halachot of kisui rosh in detail. It never says the reason is to lessen her attraction. Women do not have to look dawdy. Women can and should want to make themselves look all put together and good. There is nothing wrong with that.
We cover solely because hair becomes erva once a woman is married. That is it. Nothing else fluffy.
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