UPDATE:Not told or invited to neighbor's L'Chaim- very hurt

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amother

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 8:23 am

Our across the street neighbor's child got engaged. We were not invited to the L'Chaim or even told about the engagement . We are very hurt. We have been neighbors for many years. This neighbor asks us to pick up items from a certain store, if we are going there, a few times a year or asks us to bring in their mail when they are away. We do not ask that of them. On occasion, if we have extra food , we ask them if they want it. Over the years (but not once a year, more like every other year), we have invited each other over for a Shabbos meal. In fact, we just had them for a Shabbos meal a week before their child got engaged. We came home and saw an "engaged " sign in front of their house. I have no idea if they other( few frum neighbors )were invited , it is just the sign was as plain as day for us to see when we opened the door to leave the house again. Although their house is not large, dan lchaf zchus, we thought maybe they hosted a L'Chaim for someone else's child. We could not imagine not being TOLD. We understand that if they had no room, they could not include us and that this L'chaim may have been for a smaller group, but we were startled to see the sign and not know. We had no idea which child, if it even was their child, got engaged and hoped that somehow we would find out because it would be so awkward to see them outside our houses and not wish a mazal tov. Only a day later did we find out from another family member who probably wondered why we did not text a mazal tov to them. I replied that I did not know (because not sure if it was their immediate family member for hosting it for someone else) and that is why I did not send a mazel tov. Added to the sadness, is that we have a very small family and very rarely do we have family over for Shabbos or Yom Tov or even have mazel tovs in our family and it would have been nice to be included , even if it was just to TELL us that they child was engaged. And they are well aware that we do not have family over, have a very small family, or a ton of friends in the neighborhood. And I am not sure why they agreed to come for a Shabbos meal right before the engagement, if they were going to exclude us.

amother

Candycane

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 8:45 am

Oversight. Very often vorts are soon after an engagement.
Last week I skipped my cousin's son's vort because I didn't get a personal invitation. My sister went anyway and my cousin was almost offended when my sister said she hope they don't mind she "crashed." OF COURSE they meant for us to come .... The couple got engaged the night before...

amother

Stonewash

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 8:50 am

Not the vort, the l’chaim. The l’chaim is usually the day of the engagement, and also not usually (in my experience) a big party. It’s family members and some close friends. The vort is at a different time, and that’s usually for more people.
When I got engaged, no one from my family came to my l’chaim. My parents were in their own state, as were my siblings. My husband’s siblings were there, and some local aunts/uncles/cousins. I think that was about it.

amother

Poinsettia

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 8:51 am

Did they possibly not realize that they didn’t tell you? Did they assume they did and just forgot/missed it?

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 9:20 am

OP I am writing this for you to try and understand and in no way to hurt your feelings. I might start from the last few lines. What does having them over for a Shabbat meal have to do with not being invited (even told) about a L'chaim. Usually (in our circles) L'chaim is for family only, Grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles. etc. If a neighbor knows about it you can pop in and wish Mazel Tov. When the Chosson and Kallah announce their engagement and want the L'chaim that night, there isn't always time to call friends, neighbors. I live in an apartment bldg. Our neighbors are starting to marry off their children now. We are all friendly, some closer than others. Do you think the mothers of the Chattan, or Kallah have time to tell us about the simcha? What usually happens is the sisters of the Kallah go to the neighbors, and all the kids in the bldg. start screaming from excitement, and we all figure out someone is engaged. The parents are busy. They need to clean the house, bring in food, whiskey, papergoods. If you thought someone was engaged there, you could have written ''Do you get a Mazel Tov''? I am sure they will invite more pple to the engagement party. Try not to feel bad. It is very hard to remember to let pple know, especially if you have Whatsapp and pple might think you heard from others about the news. Again, all our neighbors help each other here, and I would not expect someone to knock on my door to tell me. (I am not speaking about family members or a BFF.)

amother

Lotus

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 9:59 am

We upset our neighborhors in thee exact same way recently. so upset they were they were very cool toward us and we couldn't figure out why. we totally forgot to invite them...assumed they knew From the street group we are on. we run in different circles and I guess in theirs they were expecting a personal invite.
it really dampened our simcha after to know we had upset someone BC we in no way would ever want to do that.
so please try forgive them and assume it was an oversight. BH for simchas

TravelHearter

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:18 am

I’m sorry that you are hurt, OP.
When someone gets engaged, they call their family and close friends and hope that everyone spreads the word. You having them over here once every two years does not mean that you are close in that way where they would think ‘oh let’s make sure we tell xyz’. Them coming over get the week before doesn’t change things at all; engagement is a busy time and people quickly forget. Also, you have no idea how it all went down. I knew I was getting engaged only the day before I got engaged. And yes, l’chaim’s are for close friends and family, not for the whole block.

amother

Gardenia

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:24 am

In my circles, we don't invite to a l'chaim. People just show up. Especially neighbors, I don't expect neighbors to call me to tell me that they did a shidduch and are making a l'chaim. We hear about the engagement and we show up to give mazal tov. I don't think I was ever officially invited to a l'chaim. It's expect to show up. It's a very hectic time and we can't expect them to make calls the everyone.

amother

Canary

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:26 am

amother Lotus wrote:

These oversights happen a lot. People are caught up with all the goings on and preparations etc that it's very normal to miss out people.
Believe me, It's never done intentionally.

I totally forgot to phone the shadchan to tell her we are going to drink lechaim and even after that forgot to call her. This is a BIG no no no, what happened.
The shadchan was understandably hurt and I felt terrible and so badly upset and distraught about it.
At a time of a shidduch one doesn't always have the regular head space.

amother

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:36 am

OP here. I appreciate everyone's input. We go out of our way to speak with all of their children. We have more than a 1 minute conversation with each of them regularly. We just wanted to be included and be TOLD , even if it was the day after.

amother

Peru

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:50 am

amother OP wrote:

WHY?

amother

Canary

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:51 am

amother OP wrote:

Of course OP you should have been let know. Do you think it's possible that they told one of their kids to tell you and they didn't end up doing so?

WhatFor

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 10:58 am

amother OP wrote:

You wrote in the OP that you were notified by another family member the next day. Was that within 24 hours of the event? Based on the last part of your OP, it sounds like you're in a bit of an isolated situation, and you were hoping this family could fill part of that void. It must have made you feel even more isolated to be left out of the Tier 1 family event, even if from their side, they may not have known you had these expectations. It sounds painful. Is there any way to get more involved in a community near where you live?

WhatFor

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 11:00 am

amother Canary wrote:

Of course OP you should have been let know. Do you think it's possible that they told one of their kids to tell you and they didn't end up doing so?

It may not be practical to call every neighbor the same night of the lchayim, which is usually hours after the engagement. OP said she found out the next day.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 11:03 am

amother OP wrote:

You were told. They put a sign on their door. You are their neighbor and see the sign.

Now the onus is on you to call them and wish them mazal tov.

Depending on the culture your expectations may be too high for personalnotification. I have a very close friend on my block. For two of her shidduchim we were talking anyway that morning or the day before and she told me and said she'll call when it's official and I should tell neighbors. Another dc she told a different neighbor and she spread the word.

My two next door neighbors have not told me personally. When I find out I call/text.

The only other neighbor who told me directly made an oot shidduch for her son. She was hosting the lchayim but everything else would be in girls far away city and sent out a text personally to the entire block. I guess she wanted to make sure we could say mazal tov...Her older son I heard from a neighbor.

There are neighbors who I speak with regularly bc im calling a kid home from their house, they don't tell me personally. They assume you'll hear from everyone else or their kids in a day or two. For the lchayim, if I see the crowd I'll pop in otherwise I just attend the vort.....vort invite (notification) usually is from the shul text and not personal either, so I may not get it for all shuls in the neighborhood and I've missed vorts.

For reference, this is central Lakewood.

amother

Lightpink

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 1:43 pm

OP, I could have written your post. We have lived on a block for about 15 years with only 1 other frum family. We are not super close, but close enough that we were completely shocked that they didn't tell us that their daughter got engaged. We found out the next day because one of our kids found out in school. It was very hurtful. I understood that they didn't have to invite us to the l'chaim, that would be reserved for closer family and friends. But they never even told us, their only neighbors. The neighbors they borrowed things from multiple times a week, the neighbors who took care of their children for months on end during a family crisis. We were sad, never said anything, I made something very nice for the vort, and have always gone to their family simchas in the years since. I know there have been other stuff they have omitted to tell us, I can't say that it doesn't sting, but I now realize that they don't feel very close to us at all, and our job is to be supportive and pleasant neighbors. It hurts, but that has nothing to do with them. If they don't feel close to us, they did nothing wrong. But I truly understand you.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 2:32 pm

So tell them. Call them up and say that you’re hurt. Give them a chance to explain themselves.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 3:14 pm

Pick up the phone and call and give her a big Mazel Tov, that way she'll be able to invite you to the vort. She may even ask you why you didn't come to the lchaim then you can explain. Otherwise try to let go of the hurt and share in her Simcha.

happyone

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 3:26 pm

That could've been me. I had no time to make calls as we made vort/lchaim same day. I put it in my status and relied on word of mouth calling grandparent and local great aunts. I didn't mean for anyone to get offended in any way. My neighbors saw many cars so they popped in. No need for a formal invite .

chestnut

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 3:38 pm

Was it a Lechaim or vort? The former is done right after the proposal, with immediate family only. Vort/engagement is more planned, with invitations texted/put on Whatsapp groups.
Please don't get upset if it was a Lechaim. Even if they wanted to include everyone, it's just impossible. Put a big smile on and go with them a hearty mazel tov.

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