Can I discuss salary with other people in my office

amother

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:15 am

Before I ask for a raise I’d like to know what coworkers doing similar work and working similar hours are making. Or even just knowing how much of a raise they asked for and received each year, etc.

Is it ok for me to ask them privately?

I won’t use this info when meeting with the boss but I would like to make a request that is as high as possible within reason. For example if everyone got a raise of 10k I’d like to ask for 7-10k and not 5 k.
If everyone got closer to 5 k I’d ask for a lower amount

amother

Grape

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:35 am

Java wrote:

Yes absolutely you should

Agreed. The lack of transparency in frum offices helps no one but the employers. They don’t want you to ask anyone else and have any information because that’s in THEIR (the employer’s) best interest (and they can get away with underpaying people who are too shy and uninformed to ask for what they deserve). It’s certainly not in yours.

WhatFor

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:36 am

In most of western culture, it is considered inappropriate and crass to ask someone what their salary is.

You may be able to get away with asking something like, "how much do you think the average (job title) at our company is earning?" but I would personally feel too uncomfortable to ask that. There are other ways to figure out what people in your field and location are making generally.

If you're in the U.S. the DOL tracks wage levels based on employment and area. Sites like glassdoor might have anecdotal information.

watergirl

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:42 am

amother Grape wrote:

OP did not say if she works in a frum office.

amother

Grape

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:45 am

watergirl wrote:

OP did not say if she works in a frum office.

True. Although non frum offices are usually (obviously not always) more transparent. DD is a lawyer at a law firm, you can more or less google her salary. You can easily figure out mine as well (I work for a school district). That is fairly typical but would not be the case in frum businesses and schools.

But that’s besides the point. The main thing I’m saying is that it is in the best interest of an employee to know how much people in similar positions to her in her office are earning.

Amarante

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:46 am

Of course you "can" ask as it is not illegal but as posted salary (or really finances in general) are considered to be more private than s*ex by most people - at least in the US. About the only financial information people feel comfortable asking about is the price of a house or rent for an apartment LOL

Employers love this veil of secrecy because it enables them to exploit workers since they can treat people unfairly. People working for a long time might make less than a new hire. Increases in salary can be given out unfairly and for the wrong reasons - and no one will be the wiser.

I don't know how one gets around it. Do you have a relationship with someone who has the knowledge who would not feel it was a completely inappropriate question? I have worked in only a few places where I had such a good relationship with my co-workers in the department that we did share salary information because we had an "all for one - one for all" sense of allegiance to each other. But that was completely out of the ordinary.

California recently passed a law requiring all businesses employing more than 15 workers to post salary ranges for positions. I add this information to illustrate that lack of salary transparency is acknowledged as a factor in terms of the ability to discriminate and exploit workers.

Last edited by Amarante on Sun, Apr 23 2023, 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Ballota

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:49 am

my dh asked his co-workers. Granted he started first with a friend who had suggested the job to so yes they were closer. found out that he was being seriously underpaid compared to his equals. he's no longer at that company. Non Jewish company so no it's not specifically a frum thing. His relative works in HR and she said all companies should assume that employees discuss salary.

amother

Purple

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:50 am

amother Grape wrote:

I agree that the lack of transparency is in the interest of the boss. Regardless, it's considered inappropriate or in poor taste to ask someone their salary. It's personal and private info. I don't care if you work next to me for 10 years, but I wouldn't respond to such a question and would wonder why you don't have the social understanding that it's an intrusive question. But as the previous poster mentioned, you can try a roundabout way. Ask what's the normal going rate for a job like this and base it on that.

LovesHashem

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:51 am

amother Purple wrote:

But it's the only way to find out if you are underpaid or not and know how much of a raise to ask or whether to even leave the job.

Mature adults should be able to discuss finances when there's a tachlis reason for asking.

amother

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:52 am

I’m not super close with the others there but they’re all nice people and I’m sure would be happy to help me out. Is it better if I don’t ask what they’re making but ask how much of a raise is fair to ask?
Or should I ask the HR person (I am friendly with her) if she can help me figure out what’s a fair ask?

amother

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:53 am

sarandipity101 wrote:

Op, I know this wasnt your question, but why would you ask for less than what other coworkers got? You should always ask for more than you want because most times you get less than you ask for.

I don’t want to seem like a chazer.
When I asked for a raise the first time (6k after 1 year of being there) the boss agreed immediately.

vintagebknyc

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:55 am

amother OP wrote:

HR works for the company, not you. Don’t forget this. She is not on your side and may lie or share what you tell her.

mommy1000

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:58 am

amother OP wrote:

I don’t want to seem like a chazer.
When I asked for a raise the first time (6k after 1 year of being there) the boss agreed immediately.

By asking for what other coworkers got, you are not going to look like a chazer. Please remember that you need to be your best advocate. Your boss is trying to get away with the least possible. Ask for the most you can. Smile

just my 2 cents.

Ema of 5

Sun, Apr 23 2023, 9:59 am

I think just in plain conversation it’s rude to ask or try to discuss, but within the office setting, especially when trying to negotiate your salary, it’s ok. As others said, comparing among workmate in similar positions is really the only way to know if you are receiving a fair salary. Comparing to others in different companies and cities is helpful also, but within your own office is really most accurate.