Unethical comment from doctor.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:01 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

So inappropriate.
And I would love to know what the *actual* halachos of mesirah are, because our community is way too trigger happy with the term, and the general concept of keeping evil things done within the frum community hidden.

He made an assumption about OP that she resented. He's not exactly evil and he shouldn't lose his job. If she doesn't have the guts to tell him over the phone or to his face that she doesn't appreciate the comment, then she has no right reporting him to someone who could make him lose his job.
Yiddishe doctors do so much for our community, they go out of their way for us, and so often do things that technically are against the rules.
My frum doctor, for example gives bc 3 months at a time even though the clinic rules are really to only give one month at a time. She also asked if I had a heter. What do I care? She wouldn't have refused to prescribe if I had no heter. She just maybe wouldn't have gone above and beyond for me. That's her call.
My husband has been trying so hard to get a certain important medication that technically should only be prescribed by a specialist, but the specialist requires him to come in monthly for no reason other than to charge an arm or a leg. No checkup is done at all. We tried with so many doctors until finally a frum doctor went out of his way to help us. He should be gebentched.

So OPs doc made a bad call once. Big deal, what actual harm did he do to OP except for making her feel slightly judged? Tell him how you feel and move on. A little bit of nosiness comes with the territory of having medical professionals who go above and beyond for us. It's not the end of the world.

Let's not go overboard here.

amother

Wandflower

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:08 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Agreed. It seems he didn't express it in the most professional way, but he was trying to be helpful.

Keep in mind, if he was helping you do something wrong (not saying it is, but assuming it was against halacha) he is also chayav for helping you. So it's not ridiculous for him to want to know.

Again, I don't think he handled it well, and I might tell him or his direct boss something, but not a medical board. As an objective, uninvolved outsider, OPs reaction seems a bit much. But I don't know how I would react if I got that diagnosis plus had this interaction right after. Plus I suspect OP is "allergic" to people telling her what to do in general.

OP, sending you hugs for everything you're going through. May Hashem send you and your family continued good health.

amother

Daisy

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:13 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

To me, that's much more inappropriate than what OPs doctor said. Halachos around genetic testing are much more unknown, so it makes sense to bring attention to it (in an appropriate manner). Almost everyone who takes BC is familiar with the heter concept. And many are told that they don't need a heter as long as dh and dw are on the same page.

Asking if you have a heter implies that you must have one. A doctor shouldn't be giving that message to anyone. She/he should simply write the prescription and keep her views to herself. This is a contentious topic for some people and a doctor shouldn't be inserting herself in the mix. If she wants to say something, she can merely say that one should check out if the halachos around this pertains to your situation. But to ask if you have a heter is just wrong on all accounts.

I would have given my doctor an earful if he/she ever told that to me. Or maybe I'd respond with asking if they have a heter to treat the other gender.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:14 pm

Librarian wrote:

I just checked - Dor Yeshurim does test for the condition it's called Fanconi Anemia. That's a relief to me. So if you went through Dor Yeshurim before you got married it would seem to me you don't have this to worry about.

There are a lot of genes that can cause fanconi anemia, dy might test for some but probably not all. AFAIK they don't test for brca genes, which is what OP wants to look at.

amother

Steel

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:15 pm

zaq wrote:

You're in the right. No matter who he is--even if he has semicha as well as an MD-- the doctor's role is to give you medical advice, period. Your religious considerations are none of his business unless YOU asked HIM about the religious ramifications of your condition, testing or treatment.

Becoming a doctor doesn’t absolve him of his obligations as a fellow Jew (and a fellow human being).

amother

DarkViolet

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:15 pm

amother Seagreen wrote:

There are many times that people are ignorant that something may be halachically questionable and I think he just wanted to make sure that you were aware about it. I would be very thankful.

This. Could it be that you took such offense to it because you know that you should be asking a rav but you are choosing not to? Maybe a guilty conscience? This is definitly something you ask a rav about- the testing just as much as what you do afterwards

amother

Daisy

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:22 pm

amother DarkViolet wrote:

This. Could it be that you took such offense to it because you know that you should be asking a rav but you are choosing not to? Maybe a guilty conscience?

Or maybe she did the appropriate research and didn't appreciate being lectured for her decision?

Why assume the bad in people, when the good is a perfectly reasonable alternative?

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:24 pm

I'd be furious. Friend had local frum OB ask if she had a heter. Sounds like he wouldn't have given bc without it. Don't know what he does with non- Jewish women. Hey, who gave him a heter to be an OB? He should've become a proctologist!
Total overstepping as well as OPs doctor. I hate it when they mix religion in. MYOB . However, this testing should probably be done through a geneticist.

Librarian

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:29 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

There are a lot of genes that can cause fanconi anemia, dy might test for some but probably not all. AFAIK they don't test for brca genes, which is what OP wants to look at.

If both parents testing positive for BRCA causes Fanconi anemia then why don't they test for it? I would think they should!
Also, based on how common BRCA+ is in Ashkenazic community, I would think FA would be much more prevalent?

Crookshanks

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:32 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

I didn't think I had to specify what exactly I was calling inappropriate and what I was calling evil, but here we are.
What her doctor did - inappropriate.
Hiding abusers and pedophiles behind "mesirah" - evil.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:35 pm

Librarian wrote:

It's only brca2 that causes it AFAIK, and it may not cause it in every case. Also, there's a hypothesis that many babys with 2 brca2 mutations don't make it to term, which is why there are so few cases being caused by this gene

Only a very small percentage of all FA cases are caused by brca2, so they probably test for the more common genes.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Apr 28 2023, 6:42 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

First of all, giving your doctor an earful is your prerogative, and would be completely appropriate if you feel upset ,as would be choosing to go to another practitioner. Tattling to their superior would not be appropriate for such a minor offense.

Second of all, being told that you don't need a heter IS a heter.

Third, if you would ask the doctor if she has a heter to treat men (genuinely and not to be snarky) and she takes offense and goes ahead and reports you for nosiness, you would feel that she went overboard in her reaction.
Frum doctors are incredible and do so much for us as a whole. They aren't malachim and might very easily say something slightly offensive. Unless they are causing active harm or failing to treat their patients, you don't go reporting them to their bosses.