Chinuch experts- please weigh in

amother

Sun, May 14 2023, 12:47 am

Ds has lots of issues. He’s 16 and not in a good place right now. He’s not doing well emotionally and spiritually.

Since he was young we tried to get him help. He’s had so many different therapists, OT, music lessons, sports outlets, even animal therapy. Im only listing some of the things we’ve tried to do to help him before anyone responds with asking if he ever had therapy.

At this point he doesn’t want to be in Yeshiva. He doesn’t want to dress decently. He spends hours and hours using his smartphone and playing inappropriate music loudly in our house.

I can handle all of it aside for his chutzpah.
I can handle the fact that he doesn’t go to shul or get dressed for shabbos. I don’t say anything when I serve him a sandwich and he walks away without benching. (Yes, many times I’ve reminded him to bench but he ignores me so I stopped for now) I quietly remind him about putting on his tefillin when I see them sitting there in the afternoon but I don’t say anything more than once. I listen to him talk about whatever it is he wants to talk about- it could be expensive name brand watches, starting an Amazon business or something he saw on YouTube. I prepare a totally different meal for him each night because he doesn’t want the supper I prepare for everyone else. He went away for shabbos and I don’t even know where he went because he won’t tell me. When he came home he walked in to the house without a shirt! I didn’t say anything aside for- how was your shabbos? Inside I’m crying but I know if I don’t criticize and give him a lot of attention he might come back… or rather his yiras shamayim might come back. I daven for him every day that he should have inner peace.
That’s the general background.

Now for the current situation-
The other day ds got very angry and dh. He couldn’t control himself and threw something at dh. Dh didn’t get hurt because it missed him by a half a centimeter. Of course ds was terribly wrong. Ds even tried to justify why he did it. Of course he says it wasn’t his fault. In his mind it was dh’s fault because he got him angry.
He’s just not well. He’s not in therapy right now and I’m trying to figure out a safe way to get ds to therapy again.
Dh is so upset at ds that he decided he’s not talking to him. He’s completely ignoring him. Someone hired ds for a small job after the incident. When ds came home he wanted to tell dh about the job but dh completely ignored him. He’s not acknowledging him in any way. It’s been going on for 5 days. I told dh that I don’t think ignoring is the right thing even though ds was very wrong. He’s an unwell person and we are trying to build him up and make him better. I feel like the ignoring can completely break him. Dh said he won’t talk to ds until ds apologizes.
Who is right?

amother

Sage

Sun, May 14 2023, 12:51 am

I think your son needs boundaries and your dh is finally giving him some.

amother

Tealblue

Sun, May 14 2023, 12:54 am

This is a tough one. Is there any reasoning with ds by you? Meaning can you intervene and tell ds that we have lots of differences and he might have many valid points but throwing something at his father that could have caused serious injury really crossed a line and he should apologize?

If ds won't budge I think dh has to be the adult and realize that ds is in a difficult and possibly dangerous place. Dh has a right to be upset and frustrated. But ignoring ds won't fix it. If dh can look into the future he'll realize that it's possible ds will mature and turn things around. But they is likely only possible if his parents manage to stay in the picture and not give up on him. Hatslacha!

amother

Junglegreen

Sun, May 14 2023, 12:58 am

I think dh should be open with ds that he expects an apology and work out a way it shouldn't happen again.
Ds doesn't seem to be taking accountability
Why was he so angry?

amother

Calendula

Sun, May 14 2023, 2:44 am

You seem to be a caring mother.

Sounds like you're tolerating him, not accepting him.

His issues seem to be so big, why concern yourself with if he is benshing or not?

The biggest issue is, he isn't feeling love in his family life.

You must put all religious things aside and focus on his mental and emotional health.

amother

Sun, May 14 2023, 7:52 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Yes, I agree with the bolded. That is right on target. When I spend time with him and listen to him I thought I was showing acceptance. When I prepare special meals for him I thought I was showing care.
I am putting all religious things aside, as much as it hurts. When I ask him about his tefillin, it’s with a calm voice, no stress and I don’t check up and ask again. I already said that I don’t remind him about benching anymore. I agree that his emotional stability comes first. I know that the most important thing is that he should have menuchas hanefesh. What do you suggest I do?

amother

Lotus

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:11 am

IMHO you (as a couple need therapy)

A safe space to process the pain and frustration at DS - so that he doesn't feel it, and guidance on appropriate responses and measures.

I don't think DH's response is right - but your isn't either. He needs to know basic boundaries - and one of those is no physical aggression.

You need guidance in how to implement and enforce basic boundries so that everyone in the house is safe AND how to avoid triggering power struggles.

amother

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:19 am

amother Lotus wrote:

We are going for therapy and discuss his issues all the time

amother

Calendula

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:22 am

amother OP wrote:

It's so hard when you seem to be doing the right thing with no results.

The key is not simply to show him acceptance but to really accept him!

He is your flesh and blood and he must feel the love from you.

He might feel the disappointment for his behavior which I think is fine, but still, do you love him or just show him love?

Children are smart.

amother

Lemonlime

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:25 am

I think you and your husband should at least see a therapist who specializes in this area for support and guidance

Hugs you sound like a great mom

amother

Royalblue

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:28 am

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I don't know who's right but I do know that the silent treatment feels terrible. And 5 days?? That's really hard

amother

Indigo

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:30 am

This is tough one
Instead of silent treatment and a control power set up I would make a plan for the future and calmly say if you throw anything etc cross a line like that (physical verbal etc ) then this is the consequence ie take away phone privileges for a day or whatever works
There does need to be a boundary lovingly and gently firmly held for everyone’s sake
Hugs and hatzlocha

rubyred

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:35 am

I think your answer can only be found with someone intimately involved in this very nuanced situation…not a forum of anonymous mothers..even if chinuch experts

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:38 am

I have an almost 12 year old son who is very difficult and gets angry, has thrown things, hit etc.
I don't think silent treatment ever is the way to go. We encourage him to apologize and talk it out with him. I feel for you. It's really hard.

amother

NeonPink

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:40 am

I think it’s time for twisted parenting
I don’t remember the Rabbi’s name
Perhaps someone here does

Your child is in pain
He does things (or doesn’t do things) to get a reaction from you that justifies his actions
Just keep loving him so he knows home is a safe space

amother

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:43 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

We’ve done twisted parenting

Highstrung

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:45 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

Rabbi Avi Fishoff

amother

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:46 am

The question I posed here is not how to handle this child in general. That’s way too loaded to ask on this forum and needs professional guidance.
The question was weather in this type of situation is ignoring until apologizing the right thing. He is obviously a child who needs a lot of help. A regular child would normally not throw something at his parents. (Maybe a 2 year old but not a 16 yr old..)

amother

DarkPurple

Sun, May 14 2023, 8:53 am

amother OP wrote:

The answer is no.

amother

Thistle

Sun, May 14 2023, 9:13 am

OP I am not a chinuch expert, just a plain old mom of many teens.

IMHO ignoring is never the way to go, maybe for a few hours till everyone cools down, but it just alienates the child even more. What if your son NEVER apologizes? Is it worth not having a relationship ever again?

The three of you need to communicate. Let your son talk about what frustrated him to do what he did. Let your husband discuss how he felt when he was attacked…you can be the peacekeeper.

It sounds like there is a lot of frustration, disappointment, and hard feelings all around and you are all walking on tight ropes around each other. Once you let go of the expectations (way easier said than done) you will hopefully see the child for who he is- a struggling kid that needs a lot of love.