S/o messy house - should I not have any guests?

Cheiny

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:19 pm

amother Natural wrote:

Nope. Mixer and food processor, and Thursdays leftovers. Probably yes.
Napkins and cups from breakfast, no
Kids crafts, no
Toys n books no
Maybe a years worth of magazines would bother me.

Magazines is a whole different thing than actual dirt, ie dirty dishes with food on them from before Shabbos, dirty kitchen, bathroom, floors, etc.

Clutter is not the same as actual dirt.

Cheiny

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:24 pm

amother Amber wrote:

You seem very sincere but your post still comes across as really judgy. It's not necessarily sickness, it could just be lack of free time and lack of cleaning help. Everyone has different strengths. Some people can manage the same schedule andnhave their house looking great and others can't.

Why do you think you know best where the laundry hamper should go in their house? Why is it wrong of them to serve guests on plastic? Just because the house is flying doesn't mean they don't know how to prepare food in a sanitary manner. There are just so many assumptions being made here and it's so condescending that you feel your have to daven for them because they're standards are not the same as yours.

For the record, that could have been my house you're describing, except the hand towels, which are always fresh.

My counters are disinfected before I cook anything. Hands are always clean and all cooking urensils are clean. After cooking, the kitchen may look.lile a disaster but that doesn't mean my food isn't safe to eat.

My house is sometimes a mess when we have guests, but I only have guests who don't judge. My guests always come back and often ask when they can come again.

Do I wish my house were cleaner? Sure. I don't have cleaning help, and there are lots of factors that all affect the state of my house and right now it's the best we cam manage.

I don’t think she sounded judgmental at all. I think she sounded like she was being understanding and feeling sorry that they aren’t able to maintain an acceptable level of cleanliness.

Are you kidding when you ask if she thinks she knows where it’s appropriate to have a hamper with dirty clothes?? She said it was in the kitchen! Do you think that’s appropriate under any circumstances, most of all when guests are in the kitchen to wash, etc.???

Cheiny

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:34 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Absolutely!!
I was at asimcha the other night and my sil who is quite a meticulous homemaker and runs a home based food business did not stop double dipping.
Not only was I completely grossed out and couldn't eat any of the salads, but I hate to think what goes on when she prepares her products for sale 🤮

I’ll bet most people who have home based food businesses, as well as chefs/cooks for restaurants and take out places do same!

Cheiny

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:38 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Not if the host was kind and I enjoyed their company and I felt welcome there.

I have been to spotless, pristine houses where the talk is all about success, gashmius, Lashon Hora etc. I have hated being at those people’s houses. They can keep their impeccable hygiene, I don’t want to hear LH.

The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive.

So you’d actually be fine eating in a filthy place? Old food residue on the dishes you’re eating from? Sorry but I have a hard time understanding how that wouldn’t gross anyone out…

amother

Nasturtium

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:39 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I disagree that if OP isn’t embarrassed then there really isn’t a problem. It’s not healthy, physically or emotionally, to live with a dirty, cluttered environment. There’s a saying about cluttered house, cluttered mind, orderly house, orderly mind, which definitely has some truth to it.

OP, how’s your kitchen? Is it sanitary? Does your lack of cleanliness extend to your cooking? Guests might definitely get turned off and have issues with feeling comfortable eating your food if they feel the conditions in the kitchen/cooking/ food are unsanitary or could even be unsafe. It’s not a matter of judgmentalism.

There’s a reason restaurants and food establishments are checked periodically for cleanliness and sanitary conditions. Most people wouldn’t go back to a restaurant if they saw it was outright dirty. That’s something to consider.

OP, is there some way you can get some basic cleaning tips and enlist your kids to help maintain a satisfactory level of cleanliness. Clutter is one thing, but getting rid of actual dirt really should be a goal to try to maintain.

Oh , I agree with you 100%. What I meant is that someone who isn't sufficiently aware enough to be embarrassed about her dirty home will probably not be questioning whether or not she should invite company.

Cheiny

Sun, May 21 2023, 1:42 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Not at all. I am sure my house’s hygiene standards isn’t up to the clean police’s standards on this thread. And while there is sadly LH in my home from time to time, I go out of my way to stop it. To me LH is worse than an unhygienic house.

Why would you bring in LH? That’s not what we’re discussing. Are you saying people who keep a dirty home are less likely to speak LH?

The issue is dirty and unsanitary conditions… are you seriously claiming you’d have no issue eating (even in a home of near-tzaddikim who commit no sins according to your standards) in a home with obvious filth all over?

amother

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:27 pm

Reading all the responses I guess I'm in the grey zone.

My kitchen is not spotless, the counters can be dirty though I try to wipe them off periodically but anyhow if anything touches the counter I consider it dirty and wash it. I never put food directly on the counter and never rest a spoon there for example. If I'm slicing cucumbers on a cutting board and a piece rolls off onto the counter I will never put it into the salad. I wash my hands before cooking and would never dream of double dipping. There may be a buildup of dirty dishes but they will all go into the dishwasher eventually. (If the dishwasher did not fully clean them I rewash.)

I try to straighten up regularly but the deep cleaning doesn't happen as often so there is grime in places, windows are spotty, cobwebs in corners. If you sit on the couch there may be some crumbs but not spilled applesauce (unless it just happened). You will probably not step on anything very gross, we do try to sweep up the floors, but it's not a perfect job and under the table is often dirty.

So I guess I should be less open about inviting people, some won't mind but others will. I can't change so easily, I'm already dedicating more time and mental energy than is comfortable for me.

amother

Maroon

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

Can you ask a trusted friend, whom you know will be honest with you, if your house smells ok or smells dirty? Because, once you get past basic sanitation and hygiene (and your kitchen practices sound fine), that's really the dividing line.

amother

Eggplant

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:41 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I am bringing up LH because that is what I have observed in clean houses over the years. I have also had relaxing Shabboses free of LH in houses that are more relaxed cleanliness wise. Even if there isn’t a correlation, I would choose a dirty LH-free host Vs a clean house with a dash of LH at lunch. Just my own preference.

amother

Maroon

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:46 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

I see no correlation. I've heard LH at both clean and dirty/messy homes, as well as had LH free visits at both.

amother

Amber

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:53 pm

amother DarkOrange wrote:

If you have dirty dishes from Friday night, stash them in the oven. Out of sight, out of mind. Wipe down the counter, and the kitchen looks pretty clean.

ETA, I see I cross posted with the ima above. But yeah, the oven is a lifesaver.

I personally think it's pretty gross to put dirty dishes in the oven. It's where you cook your food! Do you clean out your oven every week after using it for dirty dishes?

Plus my oven turns on the light if open it so not an option for me l even if I wanted.

imaima

Sun, May 21 2023, 2:57 pm

amother Amber wrote:

The oven gets very hot on the regular basis so it’s no big deal.

amother

Whitewash

Sun, May 21 2023, 3:01 pm

amother DarkOrange wrote:

So what about if your oven light turns on?
You live in a small apartment and can't just stash things away? Our kitchen is tiny so anything out makes it look messy. Plastic can get expensive and we don't have space to store bulk. -

This is such a judgemental thread.
WE ALL HAVE DIRTY DISHES. So just because someone cannot hide them better it means they are gross and unsanitary?

amother

Amber

Sun, May 21 2023, 3:01 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I know lots of families that have a hamper for dirty clothes in the kitchen. It is obviously works for them. I don't see the problem. They know their own family dynamic well enough to decode whetento put the hamper.

amother

Amber

Sun, May 21 2023, 3:02 pm

amother Whitewash wrote:

I agree. I think it's much grosses to pile dirty dishes in the oven and under tables than in the sink or on the counter.

amother

Jean

Sun, May 21 2023, 3:02 pm

amother Amber wrote:

The dirt from the dishes doesn't jump off onto the racks or the walls of the oven LOL

I do this if I have a couple of large dirty serving dishes that I don't want on the counter, and there is no more room in the dishwasher. I find it a lot more gross to stare at a large dirty cholent bowl on the counter or the sink than have it sit in my oven until the dishwasher is empty.

When I use shabbos mode the light in my oven is disabled. It's generally on shabbos mode for Fri night food.

amother

Whitewash

Sun, May 21 2023, 3:06 pm

amother Maroon wrote:

Smells are a personal thing. If you don't have a rancid or dirty diaper smell, the rest of the smell continuum is personal. I hate the smells in most homes because they are too scented. I don't use scented laundry detergent, no air diffusers, and air freshener only in the bathroom as needed. I feel choked by fake scents (and have asthma). So someone may say a home smells ",dirty" but it really means it doesn't smell "chemical" or "chemically clean".
You can be clean without the place smelling like a chlorinated swimming pool or a perfume bottle.