If your baby is in an at-home daycare

amother

Raspberry

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 4:36 am

For all those saying this goes on only in unlicensed at-home daycares, have any of you ever seen government-subsidized ma'ons in Israel? (And I'm sure the daycares in the US are the same.)

B"H I don't have to send my babies out until they're at least a year, because I wfm with a flexible schedule, but I know people who work at daycares, and who send to daycares.

It's awful.

Just saying.

Someone was just telling me she works in the baby room with a ratio of 1:7. Do you think babies are not crying there? Of course they are.

I send my toddler to an unlicensed at-home daycare with 12 kids, 0-2 yo. While sometimes DD comes home with a dirty shirt, having eaten other kids' food and drunk from other kids' bottles, etc., I know the metapelet is extremely warm and loving and capable. She once didn't get to change my kid's diaper the whole day, and apologized profusely. (I probably wouldn't even have noticed, so she didn't have to say anything.)

My DD loves going, cries to go on Shabbos, and sometimes refuses to leave at pickup.

Do I love the high ratio? No. Do I feel safe leaving her there? Yes.

And I do sometimes come an hour early for pickup, if I'm out anyway, and the metapelet sometimes seems frazzled with babies crying, but she never once told me off for coming early unannounced. She always lets me in warmly and schmoozes with me while she gets my DD's stuff together.

Bottom line - trust your gut, do your due diligence, but don't assume that a licensed group is automatically better.

notshanarishona

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 7:53 am

amother Chartreuse wrote:

I'm a bit nervous to post because I think I may get attacked. But I don't think popping in unannounced is neccesarily fair to the babysitter.

(This is NOT to say I think that the babysitting older woman in the OP should be protected. Yes, OP is doing the right thing by trying to address the situation when she clearly knows it is neglectful to the babies!)

But in terms of your regular babysitter that works our of her home - as someone who babysits, I would not be able to do my job as well if I was anxious that the moms could pop om any moment. Kids cry - its normal, it's their way of saying I'm tired/hungry/uncomfortable etc and sometimes 3 of them need to be attended to at once (and are making that clear by crying) and I'm of course working on it and caring about their needs as soon as I can. I don't take more than 5 (approx ages 3-10 months), and I wouldn't take that many either if I thought I couldn't take care of them properly. So yes, I'm trying to attend to their needs, but also yes, they might cry.

For example, many babies cry while going to sleep. They are fed, clean diaper, cozy, paci...but haven't fallen asleep yet, and are crying. Often I am putting 3 or more kids to sleep at the same time. If a mom came in then, it would be very stressful! And yes, if one baby needs to eat while 3 others need to go to sleep, I will need to get at least 1 or 2 sleeping before I can feed the hungry one. The reality or a babysitting group is that there is more than 1 baby, and it is something like triage - when many have needs at once, the babysitter needs to take care of what is most urgent etc.

Again, this is not really relevant in the OPs case. But since this was written as a PSA for anyone who sends to a babysitter, I just want to put it out there from the other side that there are many loving, caring, and competent woman doing thus job with a manageable ratio that would not love if you pop by unannounced and that there is crying in a babysitting group and it doesn't mean the kids are neglected.

Babies crying while a babysitter was trying to rock them to sleep I wouldn’t be upset at. Walking in to her making dinner/ talking on the phone/ doing laundry while kids are uncared for is a whole nother story.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust a babysitter who didn’t let us walk in without notice. When you are dealing with kids who are too young too talk, this is one of a parent’s only ways of checking in that everything is how it should be.

As a teacher, I know a visitor can walk in at any moment. Does that mean I am sometimes embarrassed if someone walks in the minute I let my guard down and pause to take a drink/ check my lesson plans, take a quick phone call if I see it’s my child’s school calling or some other emergency, etc snd the kids are getting noisy yes.. but part of what keeps everyone in line is knowing the boss can see you at any time. Does that mean it’s fun to be watched? No.. but it’s part of doing a job.

amother

Yarrow

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 9:21 am

notshanarishona wrote:

But a babysitter can't rock 5 babies at once. From the way it sounded from that poster even if she's rocking one or maybe two, the rest are left to cry to sleep. And this is assuming that they all go to sleep at the same time

amother

Daisy

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 9:23 am

amother Chartreuse wrote:

There is a reason the ratio for that age is 1 to 3.
Babies SHOULDNT be crying because their hungry and your too busy attending to 3 other babies putting them to sleep.

If your so confident that the kids are not being neglected, a baby crying for a reasonable timeframe while you are attending another child's needs (not while you are attending to THREE other child's needs) shouldn't make you frazzled if the mother witnesses this.

If the amount of crying that goes on would make the mother uncomfortable, something is wrong with the situation.

amother

Daisy

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 11:23 am

amother Papayawhip wrote:

I think it's interesting that people feel it's the rabbonim's issue to take care of this. Umm, hello each of these children has parent(s) who are willingly putting their child in this situation. They are the ones who should be aware and do due diligence.
Also, as a mother myself, I know exactly how much work taking care of even 1 baby is, what exactly are you expecting when you leave your child in a group? If you gave birth to twins, let alone triplets there isn't a question to hire a nurse. But somehow this magician babysitter should manage even a "small" group of 5 kids?
I do send my kid to a babysitter btw. The problem is making it on one income is pretty impossible these days and people feel like they need to look away because they have no choice which unfortunately I can relate to.

Well, I always knew this was wrong.
But as a first time mom, my husband was convinced by the other young couples in our building that it was normal to send to a warm loving morah with 11 kids and a helper sometimes. I was kind of bullied into it.

So no, education is important.

Stopping to normalize is important.

I nanny share, and the only playgroup I was able to find for next year is a 2:15 ratio. I was thinking of giving in, but reading this thread... I'm staying strong. (DC is language delayed, I think I might send if DC communicated with words..)

Do I spend a large portion of my income on it?
Yes.

amother

Lightgray

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 12:20 pm

amother Dahlia wrote:

Omg plz inform her that her baby will be one of 40 with just 2 morahs. Plz tell her that my baby along with many others came home mute bc she was left screaming for hours until she passed out from exhaustion. This is not ok.
Is she still in the same location? FP? Or she moved elsewhere?

She is still in forest park.
I also sent my baby for longer than I should have. (About a month).
It’s really really terrible what’s happening there.
I have called the fire department and rabbanim, nothing happened. I know that I am not the one who have tried to stop her.
She is still operating, I promise.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 12:45 pm

I'm the amother who wrote earlier about my babysitting group. I appreciate the kind responses, even with the critique. Honestly, part of the reason I chimed in here is because I've been having some questions about the system and wanted to hear other opinions.

After sitting with those thoughts and reading the responses, I am beginning to think I may be wrong about unexpected check-ins. I hear how it can be very helpful for the babysitter to feel that the parent might stop by. That doesn't change the fact that it makes me a bit nervous personally. Happens to be, I do experience this on a regular basis, because I accept dropoff babies (this is not my favorite but this year it made sense) and I don't know exactly when they will come to dropoff/pickup. And yes, sometimes the timing is really bad and this probably contributes to why I don't like the idea. But I hear - knowing that they can/will come by helps me stay on my toes. I also am aware that I'm somewhat insecure/nervous about the babies crying, and that it makes my stress go up. I think the second part is very normal amd natural - a baby's cry is supposed to be a call to action, and we are wired to respond as such. As for my personal insecurity, it probably has to do with the fact that I'm a bit overprotective of my own and hate sending to a babysitter. So even when I'm doing my best for each child, if one has to wait longer than would happen if they were the only one, yes I am uncomfortable with that. But honestly, isn't this part of the package of a babysitting group? Not that babies should chv"sh be neglected or left to cry! But that it won't be exactly like you were staying home with them 1 on 1.

And just to clarify a bit about what I said - no child is being left to cry themselves to sleep! Sometimes they might need to wait a few minutes (which I admit is not ideal, but is also something relatively normal that can happen at home too). And if this was happening every day, I would definitely change something (feed one early, tell the mom with the kid that needs the most help to fall asleep that he's not a good fit for the group right now..). BH most of the time it feels calm and right. But yes, I'm honestly admitting that sometimes there is more going on then I can address at the same time, and there's triage. Youngest kids first, most urgent needs first. I'm admitting it's not perfect. And that's why I originally said that I wish moms wouldn't visit (but am not saying that anymore and want to work to be more comfortable owning how things are) - because even though I think most moms know it can't be always perfect, I'm sure they like to think it is.. and I also want it to be perfect. And so I'm uncomfortable when it's not.

amother

Dahlia

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 12:50 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

I have tried. She doesn’t care. Sad

It’s rly upsetting that there r mothers who don’t care. I’m confused at which part they don’t care about? They don’t care that their children r locked in a pack n play the entire day? They don’t care that the only diaper change they get is when you come to pick them up? They don’t care that these ladies show them 0 love? They don’t care that they’re left to cry in their bellies for hours?
I’m just not understanding why so many mothers r fine with this. None of these factors bother them??

lovecouches

Thu, Jun 08 2023, 1:00 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

I sent my last baby to a maon in Israel. The baby ratio is supposed to be 1 to 6. I came in at many random times during the day because I had a schedule that was different every day and just looked through the window. I sometimes saw babies crying but that was not the norm. More often than not I would see the menahelet in one of the rooms holding a baby or toddler. I also saw that they would have an extra rotating morah in each room. Now not every maon is perfect and I know my child isnt getting the same care as at home but I'm not nervous about their safety. Also a maon is usually totally baby proof as opposed to someones house.