Help! Daughter has lower tznius standards when upset w syste

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 3:39 am

We B"H have a wonderful relationship with our daughter. She is very close to us (her parents). However, she feels let down by the system. She kept school rules -- tagged flip phone, spoke respectfully to teacher, etc. Academically, she was not thriving. The school was happy to accommodate her, but the feeling that she got was: do what you can, because you aren't capable of much. In her earlier years teacher actually told me not to expect much, just be happy with what she does. By the time she got to high school, she was put into the lower classes. She saw so much hypocrisy. Girls sneaking alchohol to shabbatons, girls making TikTok videos in the school bathrooms, girls spending $500 on wild goose shabby shoes, keeping a second KOSHEr phone for school and having their own secret iphone with apps. THese girls happily faked and kept the rules of on iphone. MY daughter couldn't handle the hypocrisy. My husband and I consulted with Das Torah. He agreed with us to pull our daughter of school. The school refers to her as a dropout. She is so much more. She has set jobs within out frum community. SHe has a mentor with whom she learns, in addition to having shiurim. We are trying to do right by our daughter, but so many people don't get it. Either offer support or say nothing. I am not making so much sense righnow bc its 3 am, but my daughter is looked at as someone who needs to be saved. Even if that is the case, these teachers and judgy friends aren't the ones to speak to my daughter. Share you concern with US, her parents. No need to have coffee, tea, pastries and talk festivals when they tell my daughter that she is making a big mistake.
Sorry for venting. when my daughter feels bad from these comments, she wants to chance her mode of dress to punish them. I told her that she is punishing herself.

amother

Tuberose

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:13 am

You sound like amazing parents. Just keep encouraging and loving your daughter. Does she have friends? Or a mentor? Both would be very beneficial for her.
Another idea I try to stress is "between you and HKBH" He knows that you are trying, He knows that you want to do the right thing, He is the Judge. What the other girls are doing is also between them and HKB"H. He is the Judge.

amother

Hosta

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:20 am

It sounds like she has a lot of stuff to work through. Find her a mentor or therapist who can help her work on tuning them out and finding a place she is happy. I also think she should come up with a quick line to say to these people. Something about that she’s happy with where she is and she’s not open to discussing it.

amother

Narcissus

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:22 am

What grade was she pulled out of school? How old is she now?

ETA, I think it makes a really big difference if she is 14/15 or an 18 year old who left early senior year. If she is on the younger end of high school, I would be looking to find another school for her.

amother

Blueberry

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:28 am

amother OP wrote:

I feel so sorry for your daughter and you. Our system is a very rigid one, and pushes away wonderful children who would otherwise thrive. Is your daughter in a position to understand that if she changes her mode of dress, it would provide more fuel to the fire and undermine her current position?

I admire both you and your daughter for having the courage to do what's best for her. Choosing to do what's best in such an environment speaks to amazing fortitude and a strong character. If she's able to see this through, it will provide her with amazing skills for life. She'll come out ahead of many of her classmates who are just currently sticking it out for the sake of the system.

amother

Ghostwhite

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:32 am

Now that your dd is out of school, has a job, can she be taught a skill? Have a creative outlet? First she must feel good about herself to have that backbone. *I know someone who's parents also decided she should leave school due to the school situation in her school. She had a consistent story she repeated including feeling more mature than the other girls ready to start work. And family,values to end school this early. Leaving school was actually more complicated than that

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:43 am

I hear you. I would keep being great parents and validate her view of hypocrisy. Hopefully she comes to understand that the religion has nothing to do with other people. Keep giving her the love she needs.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 8:59 am

I'm sorry.
I know girls who had similar situations who are thriving now. IyH may you get there.

amother

PlumPink

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:02 am

I would try to get through to her that she's actually MORE than those who look down at her. Hashem is cheering her on for having the courage to do the right thing in the face of all this adversity. These days it's hard to find people with this quality.

And she should know that life is till 120 and school is just a small part of it. With Hashem help she'll be very successful in work, can make new amazing friends and acquaintances throughout life and will raise a wonderful family in the future. Her choice to do the right thing now is only steering her for a better future. And one day all those who look down at her now might envy her.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:06 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

Yes! Endorse her and be proud of her.
As for tznius, that's really hard when you see so many people pushing the envelope. She probably knows how you feel. If you want, maybe (MAYBE) you can give her books like Wendy Shalit's A Return to Modesty and the new book Reclaiming Dignity, and let her now that there's not much more to say but that you hope she'll always make decisions that will reflect the inner dignity she deserves to feel because she's such a great person.
Hatzlacha!

Edited to say, read the books yourself and leave them around. But probably not best to actually offer them.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Tue, Jul 18 2023, 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total

giftedmom

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:20 am

I don’t understand. What was the reason you pulled her out of school? Because other girls broke the rules in secret? Because the school didn’t expect more academically?
Pulling a kid out of school is a big step and has huge ramifications for the future.
Every school has teen students breaking the rules. Why was she so traumatized by that she couldn’t stay in the school? I’m not even seeing hypocrisy by the school, just teens doing what teens do. And what did you want them to do about academics? If they expected more and she didn’t deliver that would break her, and I’m guessing they didn’t have the resources to help
Her achieve more.
I’m really failing to see why you needed to pull her out, honestly. No bullying or anything like that.
Ofcourse pulling a kid out mid high school will give her the name of a dropout. People gossip.
I dunno, no school is perfect but you kina asked for this.

amother

Fern

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:25 am

giftedmom wrote:

I'm thinking she's a very sensitive girl and cannot handle duplicity. Some people are like that and especially at the teenage stage.

amother

Hosta

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:26 am

amother Fern wrote:

I'm thinking she's a very sensitive girl and cannot handle duplicity. Some people are like that and especially at the teenage stage.

But such is life. How will she not fall over and break at everything now? Running from our issues is never a good answer in my opinion.

giftedmom

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:26 am

amother Fern wrote:

I'm thinking she's a very sensitive girl and cannot handle duplicity. Some people are like that and especially at the teenage stage.

Still not a reason to pull her out, seriously

amother

Fern

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:30 am

I agree on the surface level but perhaps there is more to the story that we are unaware of.

behappy2

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 9:44 am

We live in a crazy world. Be proud of your daughter and celebrate her.

amother

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 10:33 am

OP here...
Want to clarify a few things.
1) She has a mentor, with whom she learns AND speaks to on a regular basis.
2) She is almost eighteen.
3) She is getting her GED online.
4) She is an extremely talented girl (I know, all parents say that), and she will be training and getting certification in the field of her talent.
5)I don't think that the school could have done to much more to help her because SHE was miserable. I used to think that parents who did this were crazy and pushovers. Everyone is so different. There is so much that goes into being mechanech our children. Right now, I am Principal, Mechaneches, Social Director, and Guidance counselor. I am not outsourcing the job to others. I am very busy, as is our daughter.
6)Friends are the biggest challenge. She is still close with some of her friends. Others, not so much. It takes effort to maintain friendships when the natural common denominator of school is gone. Sometimes it is lonely. It is something that we are addressing. She works in a frum environment and she developing friendships that way.
This is hard. I have to look at the big picture and not this one year. I have learned about not judging someone until you have been in their shoes. It is a huge avodas hamiddos for me!
Anyways, thank you for giving me the "safe space" to vent.

amother

Snapdragon

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 10:52 am

Your daughter sounds amazing honestly, and you sound like such supportive parents.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 11:26 am

giftedmom wrote:

Still not a reason to pull her out, seriously

OP says she consulted with daas Torah.

TwinsMommy

Tue, Jul 18 2023, 10:50 pm

For very different reasons we just pulled our rising 11th grader out of school--- he'll be doing school online for the next two years. If she's getting a GED and already has a plan to get certified in a chosen field---- then she sounds MUCH more mature than most teens. There are so many ways to get to the finish line--- for some it's going with the flow--- and for some, it's realizing the flow is a bunch of hooey and prioritizing mental/physical health first.

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next