Eating fleishig during the 9 days for a woman's siyum

amother

Charcoal

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:28 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

I want to add to my post, on #1, that it's misleading to say that women don't have a chiyuv to learn. Torah belongs to all jews. Women are certainly obligated to learn halachos that apply to them, and certainly get schar for learning. That being said, Torah sh'bal peh, specifically Mishna and gemarah, and the systematic learning of abstract subjects, is an obligation on men, and not on women. Not because women are inferior, intellectually or spiritually, but because men and women have different roles.

We had a seminary rabbi who said it’s not so
Clear that women don’t have a chiyuv to do shnayim mikrah each week

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:38 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

So maybe put in your OP that you're only sharing this because you want to share an accomplishment and not because you're interested in hearing other people's opinions.

You started out with a question. However you made very clear that you weren't interested in any answers to your question because your posts indicate you ignored the materials in the OP that specifically addressed your question.

So it sounded to me like you didn't actually want to hear or read anything. If you have more opinions to share, feel free. That wasn't my original point for the thread, but go for it. I may or may not respond, but you should feel free to share as much opinion as you want.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

My question is that if women have no chiyuv to learn torah, how can a women's siyum be considered a seudos mitzvah & be allowed to eat meat in the 9 days.
(The links don't seem to work.)

Rubber Ducky

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:41 pm

OP, that's quite the accomplishment! Yasher koach!

Regarding your question about making a siyum and fleishiks, my younger son's bo ba'yom was during the 9 days, and he made a siyum. The Chinese fleishik dinner was delicious. Like you, we asked a shaila because it was so close to Tisha b'Av.

Wishing you and your family continued success in learning!

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:44 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

My question is that if women have no chiyuv to learn torah, how can a women's siyum be considered a seudos mitzvah & be allowed to eat meat in the 9 days.

That is literally the topic of both the shiur and the teshuvah I linked in the OP. And I already said I don't want to summarize them myself so as not to misstate. Either listen or read, or don't, up to you. If you don't find them persuasive, then you certainly wouldn't be the first (as acknowledged in my OP) and you'd have rabbonim to rely on also. I'm not the one yelling at someone that their posek doesn't know what he's talking about.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

The links aren't coming up. I'm trying to listen to the shuir, it's not loading.

amother

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:47 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

The links aren't coming up. I'm trying to listen to the shuir, it's not loading.

I just deleted the "s" from "https". That might help. Otherwise, go to yutorah.org, and type woman siyum in the search window, and it will be one of the top results. The teshuvah is linked in the comments beneath the shiur.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:48 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

How is a woman's siyum mishnayos a seudos mitzvah??? This seems to me like the W.O.W situation and women Rabbi's....
Women have no chiyuv to learn. It's not a mitzvah for women.

You never made a siyum in school? Girls have no chiyuv to learn, but when they do and they finish, why should they not celebrate? We made siyumim when we finished reading Sefer tehilim.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:50 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

You never made a siyum in school? Girls have no chiyuv to learn, but when they do and they finish, why should they not celebrate? We made siyumim when we finished reading Sefer tehilim.

Of course we made a siyum. And we still do.
But not a siyum and eating meat in the 9 days. I don't understand how a woman's siyum is considered a seudos mitzvah and a heter to eat meat in the 9 days.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:51 pm

amother OP wrote:

For me? To share my small personal accomplishment and also to see if any other women were doing same and connect with them, however virtually and anonymously. A lot of women quietly learn and it's not necessarily a big community thing where we all get to see each other IRL. There have been similar threads on here before about daf yomi. I don't learn gemara, not on any kind of regular basis anyway, but I was happy to see those women connect.

For you? I don't know.

Mazal tov!! May you continue to learn and grow, and celebrate many more siyumim!!!

Ema of 5

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:52 pm

amother Grape wrote:

I guess if people need meat so badly during the 9 days they can always look to be invited to a seudah for a bris.

I’ve never been to a bris where they served meat.

amother

Lightblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:53 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

My question is that if women have no chiyuv to learn torah, how can a women's siyum be considered a seudos mitzvah & be allowed to eat meat in the 9 days.
(The links don't seem to work.)

I didn't listen to the shiurim, but it's not so far-fetched.

If you're an Ashkenazi woman, you make brachos "asher kidishanu b'mitzvosav v'tzivanu..." Even though you were NOT in fact commanded to do that specific mitzvah.

(And in fact sephardi women do not make those brachos b'Shem u'Malchus.)

It's more systematic learning of mishnayos that bothers me, as well as celebrating it in a way that mimics men.

Ema of 5

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:54 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

Of course we made a siyum. And we still do.
But not a siyum and eating meat in the 9 days. I don't understand how a woman's siyum is considered a seudos mitzvah and a heter to eat meat in the 9 days.

But she specifically said it wasn’t planned that way! You don’t understand? So go listen to the shiur. But don’t come here and tell her that what she did isn’t ok, when she clearly said she asked.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:54 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Which mitzvahs do Ashkenazi women make brachos for that we're not commanded to do that specific mitzvah?

Ema of 5

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 10:56 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Because I can’t recall right now, can you give some examples? What brachos do we say Asher kidshanu when we are not commanded to do that mitzvah? You mean for example like shaking lulav?

amother

Lightblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:00 pm

amother Babyblue wrote:

Which mitzvahs do Ashkenazi women make brachos for that we're not commanded to do that specific mitzvah?

As a sephardi woman, I'll list the ones that we don't (or shouldn't be) making brachos in:

1. Birchos pesukai dzimra and birchos krias shema (in shachris and maariv)

2. Hallel, except for pesach night. (Whereas sephardi men, who are obligated in Hallel, make a bracha anytime there's a full Hallel)

3. Shofar

4. Megillah

5. Esrog, lulav, succah

And others I'm sure I'm forgetting now. Basically, we pasken that anything that isn't a chiyuv doesn't get shem u'Malchus.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:05 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Ok, I listened to the shuir now.

amother

Babyblue

Thu, Jul 20 2023, 11:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thanks, I listened to the shiur.