Nervous in the direction my 13 yr old son is going.

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)

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amother

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:05 am

Unfortunately my son has not had it easy.
He is the youngest of siblings that are much older than him.
He has ADHD which doesn't help the situation.
My husband was never a hands on father and now he is isnt well and mostly bedridden.
We are a yeshivish left family. I really would of liked to have gone more to the right but my husband while is very frum refuses to dress the part because it's not comfortable for him. He won't wear a black hat to daven because he can't take the heat, wears clothing that is so not for a yeshivish family. Funny thing is when our older kids were younger he would dress more yeshivish.
Now my son always had a hard time davening and learning because of his ADHD.
Now he is refusing to wear appropriate yeshiva clothing when going to daven (which he mostly just spaces out) he keeps asking me where does it say that he needs to wear black pants not tiros to daven, where does it say that when benching he needs to wear his hat and jacket. When going into a store why does he need to wear a white shirt what is wrong with a colored T-shirt.
I just don't know how to answer him because I have a son who doesn't do anything and my 13 yr old is always asking me why he needs to do all this if his brother doesn't.
I am just so lost and I don't want my son to go on the same derech as my other son.

nnmom

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:18 am

Is this just about “dressing the part” or is there more to the issue?
Is your home filled with love, Ahavat hashem and torah and mitzvos? Are the right spiritual examples set for him?

amother

Snapdragon

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:21 am

I have no answers for you. I am so sorry you're going through this.
Just love him. Love him through your own pain and love him through his own pain. See the real him and not his actions or behavior.

May he find his true connection with the right derech.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:32 am

If his father doesn’t wear white shirt black pants etc. it’s very understandable he doesn’t want it either especially considering the adhd. It doesn’t indicate he is going in “that” direction.

Just love him the way he is. Let him be comfortable. If his dad doesn’t wear it you really can’t nag him too much. Don’t sour his Judaism because of clothes.

amother

Anemone

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:36 am

Help him find somewhere he can daven comfortably in his tiros and t shirt.

If his father has sensory struggles he likely does as well.

amother

Midnight

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:44 am

I highly recommend rabbi shimon russel book Raising a Loving Family

behappy2

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:52 am

You can explain that it's respectful and it shows you belong to a certain group of ppl.

Don't hound him about it. Only if he is sincerely asking.

Sending my love. Life is long and everyone has their own journey. Have faith in him to find his way.

little neshamala

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:54 am

OP, your son's questions are all very valid. In fact, he is completely correct.
He does not, in fact, need to wear a hat and jacket to bentch, nor is it ossur to wear tiros while davening.
There is nothing wrong with entering a store in a colored shirt-he is correct that he does not "have to" wear a white shirt.
As a right wing yeshivish woman, I feel I have the "right" to say this.
NONE of this is important.
None of it.
And the fact that your son is saying these things, and not questions like "why do I need to eat kosher" shows that he is an intelligent boy with a strong head on his shoulders.
Acknowledge to him that he is making valid points, let him do what he likes as long as its halachicly fine. Strengthen his love of Torah, keep him in a strong , loving hashkafic environment, and dont push things down his throat that arent as big of a deal as we make them to be.

I promise you, when your son is in shamayim after 120, nobody is going to ask what color shirt he wore.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 11:55 am

The answer is, that it doesn’t say anywhere he needs to wear those things . So just tell him he’s right , and he doesn’t have to . The reason we do it is out of respect in certain sects of Judaism. And then let him choose. Do you want him to be frum ? Or do you want him to wear white shirts ? If you want him to be frum , then uoh need to stop pressuring him over pointless things .

amother

Orange

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 12:00 pm

There's ho halacha to wear black dress pants or a white shirt.
There's an inyan (Maybe halacha) to dress in a respectable manner.
That means different things to different people.
Please don't conflate culture with halacha.

When my son was 13 he had a hard time with the hat and jacket. He didn't usually wear them to daven. He has sensory issues, adhd and other issues.

Today, he is 20 and looks and acts the part of a regular yeshiva bochur. He always wears the levush, even though he does not attend a mainstream yeshivish yeshiva that stresses this.

Don't project your son's path into the future. Kids will often go through stages. Just daven and love him. And don't stress the superficial stuff.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 1:44 pm

little neshamala wrote:

Yes. Yes. Yes.
My 14-year-old son was home for a few weeks between school and camp and came along with me on many errands here in Lakewood. He wore his comfy downtime clothes. Tiros, t-shirts, sneakers in wild colors, funky yarmulka… all the stuff he loves to wear for camp and hanging out at home. He got a lot of looks from ultra yeshivish people, many judgmental or pitying stares at the “otd” kid.

This boy has zero issues with yiddishkeit bH. He is frummer than many boys who look the part. He also has ADHD and it is so not even on my list of priorities to make him wear the “uniform” when there’s absolutely no reason to.

OP, how he dresses truly doesn’t matter. Focus on what does and let him live.

#BestBubby

Sun, Aug 06 2023, 2:07 pm

There is an inyan to dress when davening and bentching the way you would dress before a king.

Maybe if you can find the source.

Today the secular world does not wear a hat before a king, some say one should remove hat before a king.

I don't think this issue is worth fighting over.

Praise son for going to shul, even if he spaces out, he probably davens some of the time.

amother

Mon, Aug 07 2023, 1:42 am

If it was just the levush I would be ok but it's everything else.
I feel he isn't connected to yiddishkeit.
My husband doesn't do anything at the Shabbos table besides eat and quickly benches. My son usually will be on the couch reading. My husband doesn't sing at all won't even say shalom alechem or ashes chayil. There is nothing exciting about our Shabbos table so my son eats barely benches and leaves.
Davening is torture for him. He has no interest in any learning. Says he can't wait until he is out of yeshiva.
I just don't like where he is heading.
He asked his rebbi a question if it is allowed to gamble and smoke. This is where his head is.
I ask him to just learn for 5 minutes and he can't even do that.

amother

Chicory

Mon, Aug 07 2023, 2:23 am

amother OP wrote:

Please get irl guidance from someone who has experience in this area. I wouldn’t recommend pushing the clothes (also said as a yeshivish woman) but maybe there are ways you can make yiddishkeit more exciting for him. Maybe you can host interesting guests or his friends, play games at the table, or even eat out at “happening” tables. Find a minyan that has a fun energy, maybe a youth minyan with a charismatic Rabbi.
Is he a hands on kind of kid? Can he build a sukkah? Go to a tish of a visiting Rebbe? Summer trip to Israel and see the holy places and get a bracha from a tzaddik?
Maybe you can figure out what things would speak to him and push those more so he finds the beauty.

amother

Charcoal

Mon, Aug 07 2023, 2:32 am

I'm a yeshivish women too - grew up in Lakewood back when only yeshvish people lived there and live in a very yeshvish part of EY today.

STOP PUSHING RELIGION ON TO HIM

The more you do it - the more he will push back. By 13 he knows what he is supposed to do and what your values are. He is a teen - and testing the boundaries is NORMAL. Doesn't mean he is or will go OTD.
What often happens in these situations is parents overreact to normal teen behavior, which pushed the kid to become more rebellious, so they cross more boundaries, which causes the parents to react even more extremely, so they push even more boundaries.

B'H he is only testing the boundaries in pretty typical ways now. The way you react will determine the trajectory he takes.

The other issue is that you don't seem to value and respect your husband, or at least are very disappointed in his level of yiddeshkeit.
That is THE biggest risk factor for kids going OTD. Work on your shalom bayis, go to therapy to process the (very real) pain of not having the family you wish you did, and learn to love a respect what you DO have.

Let go of the "right clothing" the learning, and the davening. You can wake him up to daven (better if dh who is the chilled parent does it) but don't breathe down his neck about it. Take interest in the things that he is interested in.
Try to make the shabbos table more interesting for your husband and your son. What would make it more pleasant for your husband - to me its sounds like he zips thru the meal because the only things that you deem "appropriate for shabbos" are to intense and heavy for him...
Maybe inviting guests who are interested and will talk about the things that your husband and son are interested in - even if its politics and sports.
It may not be the Shabbos that you wish you had - and its ok to mourn that - but it will a fun and interesting experience, and will cement Shabbos as quality, pleasant family time in your sons mind rather then as a boring "mechayev" that needs to get over it.

I think reading Rabbi Russells book is a great staring point. And finding space to mourn the husband and family you dreamed of and embrace and love the family you have.

It is also kdai to realize that it is very hard to have severe ADHD and live in the very academically and learning focused yeshvish world. If you help him find his niche where he feels fulfilled, valued, and successful the chances of him staying within the frum world - maybe in the more chilled or OOT parts are more likley.

amother

NeonYellow

Mon, Aug 07 2023, 8:36 am

Adjust your standard of the right direction.

My brother has a really hard time learning. Although he is a bochur, he is currently working. But he learns every day. And davens. And has a real love of Yiddishkeit. We are so incredibly proud of him. The “right direction” doesn’t look the same for everyone. Most people in my very right wing community probably think he’s headed OTD, but he’s completely not. Yes, he dresses not yeshivish, has a smartphone, listens to non-Jewish music (this one is the most halacha based of all things mentioned), but he is so committed to Yiddishkeit. He works during the day and learns at night, and probably will for the rest of his life. He davens, even if he wakes up too late for minyan. Do you know how much inner character that takes? He is not just going through the motions.

What is best for your son?

amother

Lightcyan

Mon, Aug 07 2023, 8:40 am

I would recommend finding a jpf school for him and medication if he needs.

amother

Amber

Tue, Aug 08 2023, 12:53 pm

Please join a Kesher Nafshi group and find a Rav who understands the Kesher Nafshi way. Rabbi Russell is the primary therapist guiding them. I did and I believe long term it will save my child. I also found a wonderful Rav who believes in this philosophy. I went to their Shabbaton. I have already seen a difference, even with my older kids.

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