18 month old very unhappy since starting day care- normal?

613mitzvahgirl

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 3:31 pm

Oy, your poor little one. He’s crying to tell you that he’s not happy there. Sending you all hugs.
I’m Also getting alot of red flags, I’m sorry, just my mommy feeling. I think you should take him out. But until you do, how are the other kids? Can you ask them- not in front of her- but call them to see if you all feel the same way.
You can also get the knapsacks that have a camera to see what’s really going on. A friend of mine mentioned it to another friend and was so happy she did. And believe me she wasn’t happy what she saw.
Hatzlocha and keep us posted of what you do if you can.

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 3:40 pm

amother Clear wrote:

Yes but then she can reach out to you, not the other way around.

She pmed me and I pmed her my number back.

amother

Oak

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 3:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

Is it overreacting to pull him out after a week?

No! Not overreacting at all. Please listen to your gut. I wish I did when ds was a baby. I didn't, and I sorely regret it to this day. He went from being a happy, well-developed baby to a sad shell of himself. He started regressing and became developmentally delayed. His growth was stunted. It took years of various kinds of interventions to get him back to himself. I am not an alarmist, and I don't like scaring people, but if you or anyone learn from my story, then it was worth going back in time to these painful memories.

What you're describing doesn't sound at all like normal adjustment difficulty. Please take him out of there ASAP. You would also be doing a Chesed if you alert the other parents.

amother

Eggplant

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 3:49 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Probably none of them would agree to do so, but I’d suggest every person running a daycare/playgroup install a camera so moms can check on their phones what’s happening there at any given time.

I work in a daycare and we have cameras with audio in each class but I think its not right for parents to access camera unless theyre suspecting abuse

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:01 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

Let's say it is the same place, how are you ok with music blaring so loudly and with whatever else OP described? Leaving a child in the stroller for 1.5 hours? That's unacceptable.
In any case, OP's child is telling her through his behavior that he's not happy there. That's all that matters.

I was there that morning after her kid was dropped off and he wasn't in the stroller when I came about half an hour later - so this doesn't add up. I think the morah meant she asked about how long was nap time as they nap in their strollers like many private gans, and that's around how long my child naps as well. Developmentally matches up for this age.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:06 pm

amother Beige wrote:

Maybe you're not talking about the same morah after all.
It doesn't really matter because OP's child is not happy, and OP has a bad feeling about this. As the mom, she needs to trust her gut.
Not every playgroup is good for every child. Sometimes, it's just not a good match.
I pulled out my child after 3 days because he was just not himself. He wouldn't calm down when he came home. He didn't eat, didn't sleep well, cried non stop in his sleep, and just looked very confused and dysregulated. I knew it's not the place for him.
Bh I was able to get him in to a way smaller and more homey group.

amother

Clear

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:07 pm

amother Beige wrote:

Did you see the kids getting breakfast? Was the morah hands on with the kids at all?

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:19 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

We just spoke. It is the same Gan. I agree it might just be a hard transition and not a match for her kid.

amother

Oxfordblue

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

I know that a transition period is to be expected and I keep holding that at the back of my mind but he is showing some really sad and upsetting behaviours which have really taken me by surprise- he is not my first.

A rundown of what has happened so far:
Note he was at a babysitter the whole of last year so since he was 6 months old.

The morah this year is newly married and this is her first year of running a group. I did a lot of background checking and all seemed positive plus she has years of experience in practical terms and qualifications. She herself seems really sweet.

The first few days were like and hour here and there ''getting to know you'' but the the morah didn't really make an effort to engage with the children, she jus sort of sat to the side whilst the mothers played with their kids.

The first full day, he cried when I left as expected but seemed genuinely happy and talkative when I came to pick him up.

She has a agreement that she provides all food and on the first day there was beautiful fruit cut up for the kids to eat when they arrived and she told me he ate a full hot lunch.

The second day, similar scenario. He cried when I left but was happy to sit in his stroller eating a breakfast snack she had prepared. When I pick him up he is considerably more withdrawn and seemed almost ''anxious'' to leave saying ''car car car go go go go'' repeatedly.

Day 3. I drop him off but there is no food. Note she also doesnt make any effort to take him from me- she sort of leaves it up to the mother to settle the kid which is actually really difficult if the child is upset. He seemed quite placid when I left him but when he got home.... non stop screaming and clinginess and crying until bedtime.

Day 4: Again no food. I left him in the stroller and he just seemed to be staring into space not registering anything when I said goodbye. When I picked him up I asked how long he was in the stroller for, thinking she would say not long. She told me 1.5 hours! Did she make no effort to take him out at all? Just sitting there for 1.5 hours!! He gets home and t is evident to me he hasn't napped- he is ready for bed and again its another day of endless tantrums. He is also ravenous.

Day 5: I am knocking on the door in the morning for a good 10 min, she cannot hear me because there is music BOOOMing from inside the house. She finally hears the door and I hint politely that the music is a little loud (poor kids that were there were whimpering), she doesn't seem to get the hint and says she will put a sign up that parents should ring the bell. Again he is left sitting in his stroller staring into space. And equally anxious to leave when I come and get him.

He is having terrible sleep at home, keeps waking up crying. And although ts great not having to send any food- how can I know if he is actually eating?

WWYD?
How long do I call it adjusting?
What would you say to the morah?

I am a morah that has taught that age. It can take a good 2 weeks for most kids to adjust (some aljust sooner than that, and some take longer). But there are a few red flags here. Firstly, why is she not taking him from you when you are leaving and actively engaging your child so he feels less alone when you go?? The staring into space/checking out is concerning, especially if he is used to being out at a babysitter. Also, can you ask her to let you know what and how much of each thing he actually ate? And what time he napped? Those are important things for a parent of a toddler to know and she should be giving over that information without being asked.
The stroller thing may or may not be a fed flag. Why is he in his stroller for that long? Are there too many children and she couldn't get a moment to take him out until then? Or did she make several attempts in that 1.5 hours to get him to join the other kids playing but he didn't want to come out and was happy/ felt more secure in the stroller? Big difference.
How are the other kids in the group? Are they having the same issue? Can you discuss with her that you feel he would do better if she plays with him when you're leaving to distract him from the fact that mommy isn't there? See what her response is. Also ask him what he does when she attempts to take him out of his stroller and let her know that you don't want him in it when it's not naptime. (You can even say that he doesn't sleep well after he's been in the stroller a lot.) Does she have a schedule for the day? Can you ask her for it- what time is lunch, naptime, activities, free play, outdoor play, davening, etc. I would say, address all these concerns and questions, and if everything seems to check out, give it another few days before reevaluating if you want to keep him there.

amother

Beige

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:24 pm

amother Clear wrote:

Did you see the kids getting breakfast? Was the morah hands on with the kids at all?

Breakfast is at 10am. In the morning offers two different kinds of cut up fruit. I saw fruit every morning I was there and there was plenty of it on the table in middle of the room for them to take, the past few days I came half an hour later as I started work late those days.

The fruit might not have been ready/out the moment she opened. I saw various food from the other meals as well, chicken, schnitzel, lots of veggies, rice, pasta, I saw food every day.

She has been very hands on. She doesn't pressure kids to do things, which I like. It's a different style. She won't pressure a kid to come in or be held by her when dropping off, she will ask a variety of questions like "You want to walk in with me? Oh we have fruit over there, do you like mango? Do you want to sit on the couch and read a book?" etc.

I'm going to sign off on this thread. OP and I are in touch and I will be updating her when I see her kid and how he is, and with questions and concerns....

For the record I've worked in daycares for years as well.

NechaMom

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 5:52 pm

I would love if op comes back to update if she’s calmer after hearing from beige and if she’ll continue sending there.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 5:54 pm

NechaMom wrote:

I would love if op comes back to update if she’s calmer after hearing from beige and if she’ll continue sending there.

Even if the morah is a good warm morah and runs the group responsibly, it may just not be a good match for OP's son.

iyar

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 6:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

-What I would do is make different arrangements for childcare.
-This has nothing to do with adjusting. No child can or should be expected to adjust to neglect.
-What I would say to the morah is Goodbye.

amother

Dimgray

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 7:22 pm

Why do you keep sending him back? Poor baby, this doesn’t sound right. Please don’t send him there tomorrow!

amother

Dimgray

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 7:23 pm

amother OP wrote:

Is it overreacting to pull him out after a week?

No. This isn’t overreacting. It’s neglectful to send him there for one more day!

amother

Seashell

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 8:47 pm

I would pull out immediately. I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. Like another poster said, even if you don't have a plan, your child comes first. And being in a stroller awake for 1.5 hours even one time is enough for me to say- run, as fast as you can, and do not look back. I'm davening that you have clarity and that you find a wonderful new option soon. Daven to Hashem. He can send you a new, better option even if you think there is no chance. Hatzlacha!!

gigglemom

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 8:53 pm

morah here.
red flags. the carriage is a huge red flag. id rather a kid scream in my arms than be quiet in the carriage for 1.5 hours! she needs to be making an effort to gain the kids trust, not just letting him adjust on his own. trust your gut mom.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 9:08 pm

Honestly, after reading the post by another member who sends there, I'd still send cautiously and monitor what's happening.

It's very possible that if OP's kid wasn't adjusting and very upset and only calmed down in the stroller, the Morah did it for the kid's benefit so he'd feel secure while he still has stranger anxiety.

It took a week for my 16 mo to get used to this year and he would just cry at the beginning. The stroller might be a comfort for him. If it's still happening in another week, it's a no go, but it could really still have to do with adjusting.

amother

Narcissus

Thu, Sep 07 2023, 11:09 pm

So interesting what everyone is staying about the stroller.

I've heard from people many times about their babies wanting to stay in their stroller. One of my friends told me that it took her baby over a month to be willing to come out at all. And this was in a daycare with high staff ratio and a lot of oversight.

I actually don't understand why it's better to force it. Some kids really do take time to adjust. Why is that called neglect?

amother

Winterberry

Fri, Sep 08 2023, 6:42 am

amother OP wrote:

I have asked all the above direct questions- I can ask her what he has eaten that day but for all I know if she says fro example a yogurts, that could mean 2 spoonful's each. I dont know exactly how much he is consuming. I have asked her to make sure he is actually sleeping which she did today. But I can't be doing this the whole year....

The way she advertised herself was very proactive with lots of sensory platy and she does have a lot of very nice toys.

How can I ask sensitively if she is actively stimulating them?

Sorry but who cares if she is actively stimulating them? That's the least of your worries.

You need to drop by in the middle of the day and see if she is taking care of them. Basics. Feeding, hugging, paying attention, calming children who are worked up. The sensory play is not the issue here. The question is if your baby is tied into a stroller all day, if he is being fed, if he is being loved and cared for. If he is getting the basics of what he needs.

Babies don't need hands-on stimulation each day to develop and grow. They need attention and love, and not to be ignored and neglected. If the toys are there and the kids can access them that's perfect. If there is someone to crawl/walk to when they are upset, that's perfect.

Problem is, it doesn't sound like that's what she's offering.

Stop by in the middle of the day, by surprise - if she has a window you can peek through before you knock, that's best, if your state allows then send a recording device maybe - and see what you find.

I'm suspicious that I know what you'll find, but I'll keep it to myself till you do this and come back with an update.

Good luck.