S/O Babies w/ Downs Syndrome

amother

Teal

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:37 am

amother Seashell wrote:

I aborted instead of adopting. I just couldn't do the alternative, way too painful. That's if the baby had even lived until term. I'll never know that obviously.
Mine didn't just have downs, had lots of other issues unfortunately.
No one should ever be in this position, ever. Heartbreaking

Eta: I'm not chassidish. And they encouraged me at the hospital to abort, they told me loads of orthodox Jewish people have done it.
I got a heter.

I knew I could never raise a baby with DS and I knew I could never give my baby up.
I was given a psak to abort.
I honesly believe it was the better decision in a terribly painful situation.

heidi

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:39 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

Because many hold killing a neshama is not allowed unless someone is in danger. And down syndrome is not a danger. But there is no halacha saying you can't give a child up for adoption. Also many who hold this way don't test or do sonograms, so many likely don't know until the baby is born.

Giving a child away kills their neshama
Check out studies on adopted children
Even those adoped at birth by loving families
describe having a hole in their heart that never goes away.
In my opinion it's better to abort than to destroy a person's neshama while they are alive.

Last edited by heidi on Fri, Oct 06 2023, 6:37 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Mocha

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:53 am

heidi wrote:

Giving a baby away kills their neshama
Check out studies on adopted children
Even those adoped at birth describe having a hole in their heart that never goes away.
In my opinion it's better to abort than to destroy a person's neshama while they are alive.

My best friend is disabled and was adopted. Yes, she will never forgive her biological mother. But I'm so glad she wasn't aborted. I have tears in my eyes knowing that there are people like you who genuinely believe she should have been killed as a fetus.
I hope no adopted child reads your post.

amother

Babyblue

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 9:18 am

This is so backward IMO.

It reminds me of how people handled this in the 1950's and 1960's.

I guess it is one step above that since back then these children were often put in awful institutional homes and given no education and training but just left to fester.

As others have posted, it is specific to children with this disability and not those who require just as much - if not more - care and time.

How can you give away a child and rationalize or justify in terms of giving you the opportunity to have more children.

There are children who have grown into amazing adults with appropriate love and care and can live very full semi-independent lives.

I can't imagine how it doesn't scar a child to know they were given away by their biological parents because they had a certain condition which made them undesirable. Many people who have DS are not devoid of understanding such things and internalizing their condition as being defective and less than.

amother

NeonGreen

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 9:37 pm

My dh and I personally adopted the most delicious baby with DS from a chasidish community. The birth parents are the most loving parents, however the baby was not able to stay in their home for whatever reasons the rebbe told them. Honestly its none of my business because in my eyes we got the better end of the bargain!
Yes, these babies are adorable, but also yes, they are a full time job all on their own. I wouldn’t give it up for anything

#BestBubby

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 10:46 pm

heidi wrote:

You dont think having an abortion of a viable baby not to save mothers life, doesn't kill neshoma,
Cause lifelong regret, mental health issues?

This is well known even for non jews.

amother

Nasturtium

Sat, Nov 11 2023, 11:27 pm

I'm going to be really honest. I'm on long term birth control because I have my hands full with children who have special needs and if I had another baby with any special needs, I don't think I could survive it. It would be the tipping point for me and my family. I know I can't abort or handle giving away a baby so I've stopped having children altogether.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 7:58 am

amother Lemon wrote:

Im sorry you dont believe what I wrote. But I actually, personally know of 2 families that had a child with down syndrome. And, the reason they gave the child away is because they have a big family at home and it would be too hard to take care of a child with special needs. They want the rest of theyre children to have a 'regular' upbringing with 2 parents that have time and patience for them.
Again, I dont think anyone could judge anyone that gives away theyre child. Even, if you have a child with ds and made the decision to keep the child.

ITA
The other kids in the family needs to be taken into consideration too. There are many parameters which needs to be taken into consideration. Some families can deal with a DS child beautifully, some aren't equipped to deal with it and it would be on the cheshbon on the other kids.

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:19 am

I'm biased and this whole topic is painful for me. However what I can say is that there is no way at birth to predict how a family will take to a child with ds long term OR even more so, what the child with ds needs will be long term!! Many are very functional and independent!
And we never know what any child may come up with or need at any point and how it will "affect the family or the other children" Typical or neurodivergent!
Decisions at birth are based on shock of a diagnosis, fear and assumptions, or overwhelm of shorter term medical concerns that often clear up within the first year or two. There are many who had a very difficult initial transition who feel very differently a few months or a year down the line.

amother

Outerspace

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:25 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

How does it work? Is it official fostering or adoption?
Do the parents pay expenses

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:26 am

I do know a family that had a DS child the mom wanted to keep him and it’s a chassidus that overall keeps the child. The mother was not managing her brood at home the father was doing the brunt at home managing doing and he knew a child that needed more would tip the iceberg, the husband discussed with his rabbi and he was told to give away which they did but they did open adoption they see the child speak to parents and it was a healthy choice for this kid.

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:39 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

And if they were not managing, how would they have managed a typical child too? Would they have made the same decision or probably not because the stigma would not be acceptable?
I'm not saying it's the wrong decision in extreme circumstances, however God gives children to their parents because he knows what he is doing. Extreme circumstances are a lot more rare than the fear of unknown or stigma!
Many families actually feel that their child with ds is one of the biggest gifts that happened to them even if it didn't seem that way at birth

amother

NeonPink

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 8:47 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

The father felt he was managing the fort and with another regular child he would have continued had nothing with stigma cause they were from a chassidus that kept DS children the father knew the child would not get what he needed and the family would ultimately fall apart. I do know some families that did end up falling apart and I know some that it went beautifully. No one can judge no one

amother

NeonGreen

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 9:49 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

How does it work? Is it official fostering or adoption?
Do the parents pay expenses

It is official adoption. No, the parents are not involved financially at all

amother

Lilac

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 10:17 am

I believe the main difference lies in the fact that Down Syndrome is very evident at birth. When a child is diagnosed with autism they are usually older and the family is already too attached to them to consider giving them away.

But if you read threads even on imamother alone you'll see that some mothers of children with autism or other difficult behavioral challenges would consider giving away their older child away due to the immense havoc it causes to the entire family. Families have definitely been broken over a child with complex special needs.

I recommend we all reserve judgement.

#BestBubby

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 10:29 am

Yes, some DS kids are easier than the typical kids.

But many DS are much harder and negatively impact the whole family, sholom bayis.

Having a special needs child is a risk for kids going OTD.

amother

Outerspace

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 10:32 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Yes, some DS kids are easier than the typical kids.

But many DS are much harder and negatively impact the whole family, sholom bayis.

Having a special needs child is a risk for kids going OTD.

What? I'm honestly shocked
I'm from Europe where families keep their babies BH
I don't know any sibling that went off the derech

amother

Lilac

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 10:37 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

Wow! Is that the usual?

I believe its the norm with adoption. When you adopt a child you take them on as your own in all respects.

amother

Outerspace

Sun, Nov 12 2023, 10:43 am

amother Lilac wrote:

I believe its the norm with adoption. When you adopt a child you take them on as your own in all respects.

I thought in such cases the parents still visit, not a regular adoption