Kiruv boss badmouths people he pretends to like

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:27 pm

Just venting.

I work for a kiruv org. My boss, the rabbi of the org, often makes fun of and mocks some of the people who come to our programming. Specifically, the non-Jewish spouses who attend with their Jewish spouse. Per the psak of the program, a non-Jewish mother and her children can attend if they are being raised Jewish and if the mother promises to convert by the time the oldest child is 12/13. Spoiler alert - in the 10 years I've worked for him, it's literally never happened. They drop out before the child needs the bar/bat mitzvah, they act surprised and offended.

Our program is somewhat of a status symbol in a specific group so we get a lot of these families.

I am the children's programming director and I with with the rabbi's married daughter.

This past week, a non-Jewish mother came to get her kids (obviously non-Jewish). The rabbi and his daughter were thrilled to see her, hugged, took selfies, etc. They shmoozed, then mom and kids left. Then the rabbi comes to tell us the mom (who he called a shiksa) just told him she plans to get a tattoo saying "my soul belongs to Israel" and he just nodded and said nothing. And they laughed and said how dumb she is.

I was so taken aback. I've heard him use that word before to describe her and other women like her. But who cares if she gets a tattoo? She isn't Jewish and has no plans to become Jewish. I said as much. I also said that back when I was a mikvah attendant, MANY women had Jewish themed tattoos, it just shows how far they came in their journey.

His two-faced personality makes me sick and wonder what he's saying about me when I'm not there. He badmouths many of the parents in the program, not just the non-Jewish ones.

This is a part-time job for me and I have a full-time job also. I find a lot of satisfaction doing this work, as my main job is in a non-frum office doing work I can't stand. Working with the Jewish kids is the highlight of my work-week.

Also, the pay is something I won't get anywhere else where I live for this work.

I'm just venting.

anonymous mom

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:35 pm

Uch this is horrible! What kind of "Rabbi" is that? Sad

I don't have advice but just want to say that I also get extremely bothered by lack of honesty/Two faced people. I'm surprised no one picks up on his lack of authenticity. Or maybe they do and that is the reason they eventually drop out of the program?

You just keep doing the right thing and bringing light into the world!

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:38 pm

anonymous mom wrote:

Uch this is horrible! What kind of "Rabbi" is that? Sad

Thank you. Heart

I'm not going to say what kind of rabbi he is because I hope he is the only one like this and I would never want to put down any group. But I will say, he is the sort who is lovey and smiley and you'd never think he would do this.

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:55 pm

amother Stone wrote:

Any “Rabbi” whose policy is mother needs to convert before child is bar/bas mitzvah is NOT a rabbi at all! That “policy” is one thousand Pete cent AGAINST Halacha. Just knowing that
“policy” would be enough for me to know the entire organization is a fake, fraudulent scam.

This is actually a pretty common psak when there is a situation with a Jewish father, non-Jewish mother, and the kids are being raised thinking they are Jewish. It's kept quiet but it's far more common than you realize.

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:56 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

How is such a person a "kiruv" Rabbi??? Who hired him?
Is there a community Rav you can bring this up with? This behavior is so not ok.

I think it's more his personality than the affiliation he is part of. Not I think - I know. They do phenomenal work world wide. I would never ever think this is a thing with anyone aside from him and apparently his daughter.

amother

Brown

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 1:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just venting.
Per the psak of the program, a non-Jewish mother and her children can attend if they are being raised Jewish and if the mother promises to convert by the time the oldest child is 12/13. Spoiler alert - in the 10 years I've worked for him, it's literally never happened. They drop out before the child needs the bar/bat mitzvah, they act surprised and offended.

I'm just venting.

Did you ever find out who issued this psak and under what circumstances? I am definitely not a rabbi, but this sounds so suspicious to me. Or that someone took it out of context in a big way. I would think a G-d fearing person would go back to ask about the psak if in 10 years, its never happened.

I worked for a kiruv children's educational organization as well and we only taught children whose mothers were Jewish although there were many many nonJewish dads. Families where only the dad was Jewish, weren't allowed to join the program. The application process was pretty clear in terms of asking about parental Judaism and any conversions, so it only happened once in all the years I was there that a family was asked to leave. We only found out cuz the kid slipped up. And then the non-Jewish mom admitted that she only had a reform conversion and really knew it wasn't OK. Her Jewish husband had lied.

amother

Ballota

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:00 pm

Ugh this is nauseating Sad

It's toxic to be around such people. If anything I look up to these moms for being willing to infuse Judaism for the sake of her husband even though she's not Jewish.
Maybe you'd feel comfortable saying something to the Rabbi? "I really don't feel comfortable when you talk negatively about these moms." Or maybe you you can just try to avoid speaking with him any more then necessary. It's sad that he's head of a kiruv org.
If it really gets to you, perhaps you can consider joining a different org.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:15 pm

amother Stone wrote:

I'll play devil's advocate over here.
Since when does a non Jewish mom need a kiruv Rabbi? I see a bigger problem that these non Jewish kids get a Jewish education and grow up thinking they are Jewish when in reality they are not

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:19 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

The bottom line is that he should not be badmouthing anyone regardless of who they are.

He is there for the husband who is a yid.

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:21 pm

amother Brown wrote:

Oh yes. I'm not going into more details because I don't want to get close to naming the orgs. Believe me, it's extremely common and a good psak.

amother

Blue

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:22 pm

amother OP wrote:

I find this really surprising. Why would it be an issue Halachickly that non Jews think they’re Jewish?

Additionally, halachickly why is it more severe that non Jewish children think they’re Jewish, than forcing a conversion… of SEVERAL people. Non of whom will likely ever be completely frum?

Cheiny

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:22 pm

amother Birch wrote:

I’m gonna go out on a limb to be super dlkz and say maybe he’s super jaded after dealing with the non Jewish moms for a long time, but to be honest, I’d be really turned off

If that’s so he should resign from his position.

This is where you see the difference between people who are in their line of work for the right reason, and those who see it as just a paycheck.

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:23 pm

gdgirl wrote:

we all know which group does great kiruv work worldwide...just saying Hiding

NCSY
Torah Mesorah
Ner L'elef
Chabad
Aish
Ohr Somayach
Chazaq
Olami
Arachim

Many more. Maybe the group I work for is on this list, maybe I left them off intentionally. I'm not going to say. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this, considering how clear I made it that I don't want to come even close to naming them.

amother

Stone

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:32 pm

amother OP wrote:

A psak means a component posek was asked and give this response. Coming from a family of poskim I can tell you it’s highly doubtful any reputable posek would say such a thing. Perhaps Chabad has their own way to paskin on this. I can assure you that other poskim would never say such a thing. First reason being it is forbidden for someone to convert in order to be married to a Jew, secondly we are supposed to discourage conversions, thirdly it has no bearing on the kids age. Regardless of the kids age if the mother isn’t Jewish the kids are not Jewish and they would have to want to convert and go through the entire conversion process when they reach the age of bar/bar mitzvah. That is straightforward Halacha. I don’t believe any Orthodox posek would say otherwise.

amother

Tue, Nov 07 2023, 2:34 pm

amother Stone wrote:

Ok. Off the top of my head, I can think of two psaks and I know who gave it. Somebody who most people would never doubt. But we can agree to disagree because I gain nothing from being right or wrong.